F-84G Thunderbird - Complete!

[themongoose]

Guys this is great! Will start on a few new pieces of foil tonight after I take my daughter to the banana split festival   Wings over the weekend will be my goal. I’ll watch for more ideas here and report back on how I’m progressing. 

[Out2gtcha]

Ideally, if you get to a compound/convex curve that you cant get the foil to go over try bumping up the strength/thickness of the foil you are working with on that part. Contrary to what common sense would say, using substantially thicker and stronger foil for compound/convex curves, saves tearing and a lot of headache. 

The thicker foil (I normally use Reynolds Wrap "Extra Strength" or Reynolds Wrap "Extra Heavy Duty" foil for this purpose. 

 

And yes, forgot to add that if you add a bit of dawn to the foil mixture things do spray better, but you still may get some beading if the surface is oily. Id still recommend cutting the spray foil with 91% alcohol as like with most things, it sprays more consistently than cutting with water. 

 

Id also experiment with and buy every/all different brands, thicknesses, and types of foil you can get your hands on after you get the cut mix of bleach down with spring water ( dont cut it with tap, as occasionally hard water can make the mixture less effective) as different types of foils seem to react differently and can get different results in the bleach mix:

 

There are all different types/brands/thickness here, and all gave different but interesting results:

 

 

 

 

Some with more golds and reds and a rainbow effect, and others with a more dull titanium look:

 

 

 

 

 

 

:

 

 

[Mark_C]

Just FYI, I remember reading years ago in an issue of FineScale Modeler about someone who stuck aluminum foil in a pot, and boiled it with eggshells.  The longer the boil, the more the appearance changed.  It made the foil look dull and changed the color a bit, too.

 

Could be worth a shot.

[themongoose]

Now that I'm getting into the details I'm coming up with questions as I go. DO you guys rinse these off with water right after you take them out of the bleach? Should I wipe them down with 91% ISO before applying the adhesive or should they be fine as long as I am wearing gloves when handling?

[Out2gtcha]

A rinse off w/alcohol or warm soapy water will stop the bleach reaction.

 

Yes, egg shells work. It really depends on what region you are in as to if it will work or not. Eggs around here work great, but had a freind on the East coast who tried it, and bought every brand of egg he could find and never did get the full reaction to work.

 

If you do try it a couple of things to keep in mind:

- after boiling and peeling the eggs, re-use that same water and dont dump it out, its key for the reaction.

- you can also keep the shells in the water with the foil

- dont do more than 1 or two sheets of foil at any one time. If you have two foil pieces touching or overlapping a "shadow" of untouched foil will appear in that area and may ruin an otherwise cool colored section of foil. 

[themongoose]

Haha, here’s a post earlier than expected. I think you’ll find this as funny as I do. So for a little humor at my expense check out my foil...after reading Brian’s last post I got to thinking, I only used water to rinse them off. This morning I noticed the surface looked a little gritty but just thought I’d need to clean them off tonight. After returning home tonight I grabbed the foil and took it down to the workroom to clean it off with ISO. no need to bother, it is perfect for creating a starfield for a space model 

 

that wasn’t grit, it was the sharp edge of holes where the reaction kept going. Back to the drawing board tomorrow!

[Out2gtcha]

Yep! The thicker/higher end the foil, the less that will happen.

 

Keep going!

[themongoose]

Ok, I’m confused and need some advice. Every piece I’ve tried so far comes out with holes in it. Last night i did just 5 minutes in a 50/50 diluted solution and i still have holes. 3 grades of foil, although no heavy duty foil. Used reynolds wrap, and 2 different thin cheap dollar store brands. I’m using the kroger brand splashless bleach. Could that be my problem?

[Out2gtcha]

3 hours ago, themongoose said:

Ok, I’m confused and need some advice. Every piece I’ve tried so far comes out with holes in it. Last night i did just 5 minutes in a 50/50 diluted solution and i still have holes. 3 grades of foil, although no heavy duty foil. Used reynolds wrap, and 2 different thin cheap dollar store brands. I’m using the kroger brand splashless bleach. Could that be my problem?

 

 

There could be several things at work here. Possible:

- bleach solution is too potent. I normally I use a 50/50 or less mix, so at first read I'd think this might be the issue -  try using some normal liquid bleach instead. I've not ever used gel.

 

- foil is left in too long. I would suggest doing an experiment.....

 

Take multiple containers that will hold bleach and separate them out.

Then add your normal penny and lead amounts to each.

Next and pour a decant  amount of the 50/50 mix in the first container, enough to cover some foil pieces.

Go on down the line of containers and dilute the mix more as you go down the line.

Once done, add several of the same type of foil to each container, and start a stopwatch. 

Keep a very close eye on the containers, and note when the 50/50 mix starts to get holes in it, and you wipe have a baseline to start with.

Going on down the line of more diluted mixes, you should arrive at a mix ratio and time that will give you the colors you want for that type of foil.

I'd also highly recommend getting the heavy duty/heavy strength stuff, as its critical for corners and curves.

 

This is not an exact science, and even the oldest and wisest foil solution makers cant always come up with the right mix and time for the foil were working with.

It takes some experimentation and time. I'd also recommend that once you find a time and ratio that work, KEEP that jar!

 

 

[Out2gtcha]

Ok, here we go.......

 

I have foil notes from experimentation with colorizing foil over the years and are in no specific order.....just notes taken from throughout the process.

 

These are notes to myself as I went through the experimentation process so there is no rhyme or reason to the order of them, but there are very specific measurements and ratios here. Hopefully it might provide some help.

 

 

- by 1.5 hours time, most reactions should happen

- anything more and you risk bleach pinholes

- 1 1/4 cups bleach to 3 cups water

- 33 Oz. Spaghetti jar

- all pieces should be no larger than 4.5" wide X 4.5 or less tall

- no more than 4 or 5 pieces MAX in the jar at any 1 time

- MY own first batch: 30 pennies 1.05 oz #9 lead shot CHEAP normal foil

- wear gloves at ALL TIMES when handling foil at any point!

- generally cheaper NON heavy-duty foil takes to the chemical color better.

- Crease or wrinkle the foil as little as possible.

- More (lead/pennies) does not equal better! More of these in the bleach mix makes the reaction more intense, and clouds the mixture with acidic effects

- My second batch: 35 pennies .75 oz #9 lead shot CHEAP normal foil

- My third batch will be 1.0 oz lead w/30 pennies

 

[themongoose]

Brian thanks for the advice! Looking at your notes it sounds like my mix is way way too strong. I’m traveling for work this week so I’ll start my experiments next weekend!

 I did start working on the wings today. I’m planning on using the colorized foil around the engine and the underside. Looking at pictures on the F-84G Thunderbirds the metal is more of a satin finish. I looked at the F-100 and it looks pretty glossy. Also, the panels seem pretty consistent. I grabbed about a dozen pics that show some different panels in terms of colors and texture. I used 0000 steel wool and 800 grit sandpaper for different grain.

 

and adding the “chrome” leading edges. Here I used the shiny side of the foil.

Edited June 10, 2019 by themongoose

[themongoose]

On 6/7/2019 at 1:44 PM, Mark_C said:

Just FYI, I remember reading years ago in an issue of FineScale Modeler about someone who stuck aluminum foil in a pot, and boiled it with eggshells.  The longer the boil, the more the appearance changed.  It made the foil look dull and changed the color a bit, too.

 

Could be worth a shot.

 

I’m definitely going to try this. Might as well while I’m trying to figure out the bleach concentration. This is turning into a fun science project 

[Mark_C]

I found this link about eggshells, etc:

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235017564-bare-metal-foil/

 

Look for the February 27 post by "Old Man."

[themongoose]

Well I finished the Corsair, took a business trip to Cocoa Beach :-) and got a stomach bug. All that to say I finally got time to work on foiling again! Between rain and the bug i got stuck in the house for a few days. No energy required to apply foil. Still have the experiment with bleach to do. No worries though, I will see to it. I have the fuselage done now. I just had to pose it with the wings for affect. It seems like it should be quicker but between smaller pieces and the routine rework it took 2 days. 

 

i was able to use 1 piece of the bleached foil i had. No holes show so it seems ok.

 

I’m working on the canopy now. Once i have this set up the painting can begin.

 

2?’s now

Knowing that I have to paint would i be best to clear coat the whole model now?

How do decals go onto foil? those usaf decals are huge. I’m wondering if they stick or if i have to put some clear on to use them? From what I’ve read i need to avoid putting tape on this thing so I’m thinking decals are best, rather than the masks i tend to use.

[Out2gtcha]

Paint the codes! 

Just make sure your foil adhesive is well burnished down, and your paint masks have been slightly detact.

Foil is just a tape in and of itself, you just have to make sure any tape (or paint masks) you put over it has a less powerful adhesive.

The clear carrier shows pretty bad on foil, and is amplified when the decal/codes are larger.

I dont ever clear my foil (overall). Its stops the aging process for weathered birds, and changes the look away from a realistic looking chrome shine on polished birds.

 

For any stencils, or other decals that must have clear carrier on them, you can put a drop of Future under the stencil/decal prior to its application and then once the decal is burnished to the surface as normal, you can dab away the excess around it.