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Here is a link to the Research Article on j-aircraft.com.

 

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/otherres.htm

 

There are color mixes for all the various colors, including the differences between Mitsubishi and Nakajima Ame-Iro, and the blue-gray fabric dope color.

 

I have an extensive collection of A6M3 fragments in very good condition (all A6M3 were Mitsubishi built). The cockpit color is near mint as it was painted before being riveted over and covered for over 60 tears.  It's almost spot on to FS 34151.  The Ame-Iro is also in excellent condition and matches well other Pearl Harbor artifacts of the same shade.

 

Of note are 5 different shades of Aotake, that they aren't just differences in thickness, but various shades of blue to green.  When I bought them I had an extensive discussion with Ryan about this.  He mentioned sub-contractors making many pre-formed components.  A Nakajima wheel bay he examined demonstrated this, then a final coat which made it seem more uniform.

 

Sorry about the poor lighting, I need to take better pictures, and a real camera:(!

 

Glad to see so many fellow Zero geeks out the:)!

20190112_211512_zpsz1wdvkcj.jpg

 

20190112_211225_zps1tsoyutz.jpgzero_mitsubishi_fragment_color_cockpit_z

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Hello Gentlemen,

 

Scott mentioned this thread on the phone this afternoon so I came to check it out. After some attempts to sign up as a new member I discovered I already had done so some time ago. A bit of password recovery and here I am. For what it's worth I sent a copy of my A6M5 tweak list to Rado Marczak a number of years ago when he reviewed the Tamiya kit here.   https://www.largescaleplanes.com/reviews/review.php?rid=938  So you did in fact see it on LSP, albeit well hidden away. I also have done a similar list for the A6M2, but it too needs to be revisited and brought up to date.

 

At any rate, several of you mentioned you were considering a build of a large scale Zero so I'll make an offer to help out as best I can if any of you have any questions.

 

Ryan Toews

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Thanks for chiming in, Ryan. Always good to have expert input. With your permission, I'd like excise the tweak list from Rato's review, and publish it in our usual Tweak Lists article format. That way, it will be easier to find and make use of. If you have any others you'd be prepared for us to publish, just let me know!

 

Kev

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Hi gents, 

 

As we have some Zero gurus here, I have two questions for them as I am building a Rabaul-based type 22 and in spite of the fact I have more than a dozen of books dedicated to the plane, there are still some black holes. 

 

First, the radio system was removed from that plane. Does this mean they left a hole in the canopy? Pictures of such planes are not very conclusive. 

 

Second, has anybody any picture or good sketch showing the fuselage flotation bag? I just know one bad TM-like upper view showing vaguely the location. As far as I know type 22 planes should have such a device and I do not even know what was its color and how look like the fixtures. 

 

Thanks in advance for any information. 

 

BR

 

Thierry 

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As far as I'm aware, the hole in the canopy the antenna mast occupied, was not covered over.

 

The flotation bag was a canvas color.  It occupies the entire fuselage cross-section aft of the equipment behind frame 7 (fuselage split).  It's suspended by hangars/clips so it fills the space.  Nothing aft of it will be visible.  The inflation control is the large wingnut shaped valve on the left side of the cockpit if memory serves.  I can't remember the reference for the color and location so take it for what it's worth.

 

When I did mine, I just cut a piece of sheet styrene in the shape of the fuselage cross-section, covered it with milliput, textured it to look like canvas, painted and installed it.  Done.

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Posted (edited)

Here's a link to an article you may or may not have seen regarding the A6M3 Model 32 and its floatation bags among other things:  http://rwebs.net/avhistory/history/Zeke32.htm . The illustration shows the fuselage floatation bag going all the way to the structural bulkhead behind the cockpit.  I don't believe it went that far and the article (a reprint from Aviation Magazine) is in error about this.

 

This photo (linked to j-aircraft.com) shows the fuselage floatation bag being examined.  You can get an idea of how far it extends based on the fuselage ID band on the fuselage.  This is a Pearl Harbor A6M2 Model 21 but I see no reason why the floatation bag would have changed between the Model 21 and the Model 22/22a/32.  You can also see the attaching bands used to attach the bag to the airframe.  The older sailor seems to have his finger in a vent hole or some such item.  Anyway, what I'm seeing reinforces my belief that the floatation bag does not extend all the way to the fuselage rollover bulkhead and ends/begins immediately aft of the radio shelf. 

http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/jimlansdale/phspecial/154_TP_E.jpg

Edited by Juggernut

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Thank you, Mike. Kevin, yes that is not a problem to repost the tweak list. However, If you can give me a few days I can rewrite it to bring it up to date. I can also send you a similar list for the A6M2. Which is easier- should I post it myself or send you the .doc? 

 

Juggernut has it. I've only seen one pic that showed the antenna post hole to be blocked off. Don't forget that just behind the mast was a hole for the "flow-though" ventilation system. The floatation bag probably was a off white canvas, judging from the photo link he posted. The Zero Maintenance Manual has a diagram that shows that the front end of the floatation bag was at Station 7 and ran back to Station 13. 

 

Thierry, what are you basing your Type 22 on? There are a number of small cockpit variations that should be addressed. How much "rivet-counting" do you want to do? 

 

How do I post pics here? I noticed that Scott's images were tagged through Photobucket. Does this mean I have to reopen my account there? I trashed it in a fit of pique after PB tried to charge for usage.

 

Ryan

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Thanks to both of you for the info,

 

You do not need a PB account. Any site allowing you to upload and store pictures is OK (Imgur, Flickr, Smugmug, Picasa, ImageShack, etc.) as you just need to put the link to the picture storage location in one post to see the picture appearing when it is published.

 

I knew the rwebs.net A6M3 article. Actually, this is where I found the only sketch related to that floatation bag.

The fact they left the canopy hole is indeed somewhat logical as there is that ventilation hole right behind but on some pictures it looks like the hole was possibly faired over. So, I prefered to get a confirmation before! Thanks for that.

 

Well, it is somewhat difficult to say on which kit my type 22 is "based". Mainly it is the Doyusha kit but this is actually far more complicated than that!

If you look for "Frankenzero" in the WIP section you will find my kit. I just took it out of the shelf of stalled kits to put it again on the table thanks to that thread! I was somewhat burnt after having reproduced a stressed skin effect over all the airframe... :-(

 

To explain a little bit:

 

- The type 22 I am building is based on the Doyusha 21 fuselage and wings.

- I cut the fuselage at station 1 and added the front of the so-called A6M3 from 21st century. The parts were alas so crude they require a lot of work and epoxy putty to get a cowling front fuselage looking like the A6M3 ones.

- The engine is a mix of 21st century and leftover Tamiya parts from the A6M2 plus modified Quickboost exhausts whereas the propeller is also a leftover from the A6M2.

- The LG and rudder are also coming from a Tamiya A6M2 kit intended to be changed into a Rufe and the LG wells are from CMK.

- The wing bulges and aileron tabs were also retrieved from leftover Tamiya parts. Unfortunately I could not use the full aileron parts because the dimensions of the Doyusha parts are not identical. I was not willing to change noticeably the wings for that because the discrepancy is not really visible.

- The cockpit is a mix of 21st century parts, Tamiya leftover parts, a CMK seat and scratchbuild parts!

- Last but not least the main canopy is a mix of the Doyusha kit for the front and 21st century for the rear because the rear section of the Doyusha part was cracked and I could not use the full canopy from 21st century as it is thicker and the kit upper fuselage cross-sections are different... Ouch!

 

I am quite happy with the current result but have still to solve some problems to position correctly the internal parts (pit, engine & exhausts).

 

With regard to the cockpit features, this is not very easy as the documentation about the A6M3 types is not that exhaustive. I identified the differences in the IP lower section and will remove the radio and range finder boxes from the starboard side (I'm making Nishizawa's bird). Besides that, it is not really obvious to identify what should be closer to the A6M2 or the A6M5. Last, I am also struggling to know what I will finally put behind the seat as I guess the battery stayed at least for the lighting system.

 

I would not recommend that route to anyone as cross-kitting and modifying the Tamiya A6M5 & A6M2 is far easier. However, as I had all the kits in my stash, the challenge was interesting whereas the cost was far lower.

 

Any info about the type 22 cockpit idiosyncrasies will be welcome!

 

Cheers

 

Thierry

 

 

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9 hours ago, A6M said:

Kevin, yes that is not a problem to repost the tweak list. However, If you can give me a few days I can rewrite it to bring it up to date. I can also send you a similar list for the A6M2. Which is easier- should I post it myself or send you the .doc?

 

Thanks, Ryan. Happy to wait for a revised version. Best to email me whatever you come up with via kevin@largescaleplanes.com. I'll then publish it on the website; that way it won't get lost here in the forums.

 

As for posting images, you just need to have them uploaded somewhere where you can copy the direct URL, and then paste that in to a post edit window here. It doesn't have to be Photobucket, and I certainly wouldn't recommend them!

 

Kev

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Wow guys! Thanks for all comments and sharing your knowledge! It's great to have Tweaks Lists of both the -2 and -5 that reflect the ever-increasing knowledge of the historians/researchers/modellers!

 

Also, aotake shows up much greener than I thought!

 

@Scott, you mentioned that the A6M2 had a different oxygen set-up than the -5. Can you elaborate? It's the part with the Big Ed-set that I'm currently working on. I feel I can't start a WIP on the forums here if I haven't something substantial to show. The rear fuselage and cockpit should show considerable build progress for that, IMHO.... 

 

Thanks!

Erik.

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Posted (edited)

IMG_9358.jpg

My Aotake finish is a mix of Tamiya clears (11 parts X19 Smoke, 10 parts X23 Blue, 1 part X25 Green).  Heavily thinned then a few passes on a silver base of Alclad Aluminum.

 

I had planned to wire the ignition wires with lead wire.  Braided wire?  Love it I learn something.  Will be checking in with RB soon. 

 

Erik, I did the EDU cockpit on my A6M2N and regretted it 30 minutes later.   For me, the kit pit is well done.  The EDU interior paint is hard to match.  I did drill lightening holes and added some lead wire.  The EDU Exterior 32162 is great for wheel well detail.

 

 

TAM_A6M2b_PitPreAssembly.jpg

 

I'm doing a PH build and the main color content is causing my little brain to freeze.   I might do some ratio mathematics, counting over 100 drops will drive me batty.

 

Hope to get my A6M2b back on the bench late spring.  Will be watching this thread.

Edited by Rick K

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Per Robert Mikesh:

 

"The name "aotake" is also controvserial.  When translated directly from Japanese, the word "aotake" lieterally means, "blue bamboo". However, "ao" also means "green" or "young" in Japanese.  In this case, therefore, "green bamboo" or "young bamboo" may be more appropriate as translations of "aotake".... 

 

Encounters with aotake in protected areas such as under tightly riveted  pieces of metal reveal a deep transparent blue.  In areas where long exposure has occurred, aotake is much lighter and greener....  Aotake seems to vary with every sample examined.  Even on a small piece of metal, sometimes many colors can be seen.  They are blended together like oils on a canvas.  Therefore, when simulating it for whatever purpose -- if it looks right, it is right."

 

In short, Aotake can range anywhere from a deep translucent blue to a translucent green color. 

 

REFERENCE: Mikesh, Robert C. (2000).  Japanese Aircraft Interiors, 1940-1045. Monogram Aviation Publications. Sturbridge, MA (p. 15)

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I am getting ready to start a Pearl harbor A6M2 myself.  Any help will be appreciated.  Wasn't there someone who did a nice PDF of the color schemes and colors of the Zero  and  they were  selling it?

 

Andy

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1 minute ago, titan8251 said:

I am getting ready to start a Pearl harbor A6M2 myself.  Any help will be appreciated.  Wasn't there someone who did a nice PDF of the color schemes and colors of the Zero  and  they were  selling it?

 

Andy

 

yes, Nick Millman is the author of that work.  If you're so inclined, you can visit his site here, scroll down to the thumbnail (in the R/H Margin) of the Early Zeroe's and purchase a copy.  He's got more stuff that I just realized when I went to look for the link to put here so I have to revisit his page again soon.

 

HTH

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