Andrea Ferrari Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dave Williams said: Different fuselages in the D and A kits, because the canopy is quite different between the two. Since the 1/24 kit should be a simple scaleup of the 1/32 kit, I wonder how the fuselage of the 1/32 D and G kits compare with the 1/32 Hasegawa kits. Just for confirmation - I just did a quick check juxtaposing images of the fuselage halves of Trumpeter's 1:24 and 1:32 kits and the former appears to be a perfectly scaled-up version of the latter, so IF (I am starting to doubt myself!) there is a mistake, it was already present in their 1:32 kit. Edited February 5, 2019 by Andrea Ferrari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheetah11 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) Hi Andrea I agree with the above observation. Here is a comparison of the Hasegawa fuselage with an image of the 1/24 Trumpeter fuselage. It is a crude comparison but should show the extend of the problem. You can see the Hasegawa with rudder attached is almost the same as the Trumpeter without rudder. Nick Edited February 5, 2019 by Cheetah11 Additional text added Martinnfb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrea Ferrari Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Cheetah11 said: Hi Andrea I agree with the above observation. Here is a comparison of the Hasegawa fuselage with an image of the 1/24 Trumpeter fuselage. It is a crude comparison but should show the extend of the problem. You can see the Hasegawa with rudder attached is almost the same as the Trumpeter without rudder. Nick Thank you Nick! Alas, an irrefutable confirmation of my worst fears - I spent a month lovingly building and finishing a seriously faulted kit ! Well, at least now others have been warned. Now - before I find the guts and resolve to start chopping up and try fixing my Ju87 D-5 (I know I will do it, sooner or later, to find peace )...what should I do to correct my upcoming G-2 before starting the build? Can anybody suggest which is the right section of the rear fuselage to chop off without losing one's mind? I suspect smack in the middle, where the Balkenkreuz usually goes - but I might be mistaken... Edited February 5, 2019 by Andrea Ferrari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark P Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 Glad I didn't opt for the 24th scale kit...though I really wanted the G! Mark Proulx nmayhew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrea Ferrari Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Mark P said: Glad I didn't opt for the 24th scale kit...though I really wanted the G! Mark Proulx They are seriously faulted, yes - but they can be a beautiful model! My D-5 - although too long as we now know beyond doubt - is pretty nice, and I bet I can make a silk purse out of Trumpeter's sow ear with their G-2. It's a challenge, but it can be done ! I only wish I could post a few images of my D-5 to see what you guys think of it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheetah11 Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) Andrea here are some images of the Hasegawa kit to help if you want to scale it up. Edited February 5, 2019 by Cheetah11 spelling Martinnfb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanna Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) I compared the 1 32 hase and trump fusealages. The trump is 7-9mm longer. I am not a math guy but the jump to 1 24 dimension does not work. 3 in longer with scale difference between 1 32 and 1 24? So is the trump 24 a pantographed 32 kit? MK. Edited February 5, 2019 by hanna Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrea Ferrari Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Cheetah11 said: Andrea here are some images of the Hasegawa kit to help if you want to scale it up. Thank you Nick, much appreciated! I'm very surprised this serious dimensional mistake in the kit wasn't reported when the 1:32 Trumpeter Ju87 D and G came out (there are a few reviews and builds on the net) - apparently nobody noticed it or never took the trouble of alerting others. At least we'd have know what to expect with the 1:24 scaled up versions. Talk about nitpicking and rivet counters LOL! Edited February 6, 2019 by Andrea Ferrari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wegener Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 We still seem to be comparing kits with kits so it’s not clear to me how that tells us much about the fidelity of one kit to the prototype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Howie Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 On 2/5/2019 at 7:32 PM, Andrea Ferrari said: The Ju87 information and profile sources in my library (I do not have direct access to the few real surviving airplanes in museums) include Shigeru Nohara's Ju87 D/G AERO DETAIL, Eddie Creek's Junkers Ju87 From Dive Bomber to Tank Buster 1935-1945 (Classic Publications), Haynes Owner's Workshop Manual Junkers Ju87 Stuka, Nick Beale's Ghost Bombers, the Squadron Signal booklet plus a handful of unit histories, not to mention several Japanes books on camouflage etc. All seem to indicate (to me at least) that the old Airfix kit is reasonably correct (I admit not being a rivet counter however, and not one to worry too much in very slight discrepancies)...If these sources are not considered reliable, what else can one do besides walking around, above and under a surviving WWII warplane measuring every inch of it? Well until i can verify by measuring, having it measured or verified against reputed verfied accurate plans i wouod not come into any forum saying this kit is great that ie Trumpeters kit is rubbish oh my god how did they do it. The Monogram F-84 was thought to be the bees knees and people hammered Trumpetboss when their F-84 did not line up with it...oh my god how crap is this Chinese pos, how could they do it its such a well known aircraft. Oh when someone measured up the F-84 which kit was wrong.,.Monogram. Did we see any of the oh my god how crap is Monogram, how could they do it? No all we got is silence. Now i agree there is every chance Trumpeter did get it wrong but how about you produce some well regarded plans ie Bentley and try there as a better starting point to compare rather than an Airfix kit which as we have seen repeatedly re old kits is no guarantee of anything... Unlike say a Hasegawa 109 which has been compared from end to end over the years and judgement from there would be quite reliable the Airfix Stuka has not been studied at any length and is a poor place to start. Being well regarded means little under the blow torch of accuracy. Harold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrea Ferrari Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Darren Howie said: Well until i can verify by measuring, having it measured or verified against reputed verfied accurate plans i wouod not come into any forum saying this kit is great that ie Trumpeters kit is rubbish oh my god how did they do it. The Monogram F-84 was thought to be the bees knees and people hammered Trumpetboss when their F-84 did not line up with it...oh my god how crap is this Chinese pos, how could they do it its such a well known aircraft. Oh when someone measured up the F-84 which kit was wrong.,.Monogram. Did we see any of the oh my god how crap is Monogram, how could they do it? No all we got is silence. Now i agree there is every chance Trumpeter did get it wrong but how about you produce some well regarded plans ie Bentley and try there as a better starting point to compare rather than an Airfix kit which as we have seen repeatedly re old kits is no guarantee of anything... Unlike say a Hasegawa 109 which has been compared from end to end over the years and judgement from there would be quite reliable the Airfix Stuka has not been studied at any length and is a poor place to start. Being well regarded means little under the blow torch of accuracy. So according to you the measurements, plans and profiles offered in the books I cited should not be reputed as verified or accurate: Shigeru Nohara's Ju87 D/G AERO DETAIL, Eddie Creek's Junkers Ju87 From Dive Bomber to Tank Buster 1935-1945 (Classic Publications), Haynes Owner's Workshop Manual Junkers Ju87 Stuka. If these are not reliable sources I don't what is. Which ones would you suggest then? Besides, I believe here we are both comparing kits and wondering how Trumpeter did scale a total length of 11,5 meters to 55 cm, when it actually measures up to 47.9 cm in 1:24. There's no comparing of kits in this, just a scale conversion. Or should we believe the Ju87 was NOT 11 meters long and all sources got it wrong? Btw, I'm far from bashing Trumpeter - I have built most of their 1:24 planes and greatly enjoyed doing it, even if most of them have inaccuracies - some slight, some serious. And the fallacies of their D-5 won't deter me from building the G-2. This time, however, I'll do my best to correct its inherent mistakes and try to build a correctly sized kit...that's why I became a member of this Forum, in fact. Edited February 6, 2019 by Andrea Ferrari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheetah11 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Wegener said: We still seem to be comparing kits with kits so it’s not clear to me how that tells us much about the fidelity of one kit to the prototype. Hi Wegener and Darren I still think it is worthwhile comparing the different kits. The Hasegawa kit is not perfect by any means. The length behind the firewall seems spot on and that is the area of concern compared to the Trumpeter kits. I measured the fuselage length from tail to behind the firewall and then the nose section of all the kits in my collection and compared them against the few plans and published references I have, using 11.5 meters as the length for the D and 11,1 meters for the B. The relative lengths are as follows. Monogram 1/48 : Spot on as far as I can measure (Very old kit and very accurate in length!!!) Fujimi 1/72 : Spot on in length Same comment as for the Monogram kit Hasegawa 1/32 : Nose about 10 mm short Hasegawa 1/48 : Nose 7 mm short. (No surprise as it is the same mistake as in 1/32) Until someone measure a few points on the real prototype, all we can do is compare plans and kits, and as you are now aware different manufacturers all have their own take on the Stuka. Nick Andrea Ferrari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheetah11 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) Just a last comment on the Stuka Here is the problem with plans and published dimensions. Squaron signal plans up scaled to 1/32 and 1/32 Hasegawa nose. The same nose superimposed on a side photo. Although the Monogram kit is perfect in length and matches the SS drawing, the Hasegawa kits seem proportionally better. Andrea I would try and find a good side on photo and correct the kit according to that. Nick Edited February 6, 2019 by Cheetah11 Additional text added Martinnfb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Williams Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 To be honest, I wouldn’t trust the line drawings in the old Squadron books to be anywhere near accurate in dimensions. nmayhew and ringleheim 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alaninaustria Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Looks to me to be another First World problem to have a kit out of dimension... In any case, it should still build up nicely! Cheers Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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