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D.B. Andrus

Late War RLM usage of 81/82, etc.

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So may I ask (we know from what you said earlier that RLM 76 moved from a finishing paint to a primer paint) is there any evidence that 81 and 82 were of a similar 'multi-purpose' composition?

 

Matt

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7 minutes ago, Vincent/MDC said:

 

well, why are the instrument panels grey then ? And in person the green is even more pronounced than on this pictures.

 

also, when describing the RLM66 inspected within the production facilities, the british survey talks about "sea green" rather than "dark grey"

 

 

I was simply pointing out that the ambient lighting may have contributed to the perceived colour shift. I appreciate that English may not be your first language Vincent, but the tone of your reply is a little tetchy. The grey panels could simply be as they are because they are at a differing angle to any ambient lighting. What I'm trying to do here is to consider all the possible evidence.

 

I have no problem at all in accepting that RLM66 came in one or more colour variations; as Matt has pointed out, most of us accept that RLM76 came in differing colours. However, I'm not buying any  contemporary verbal description of colours at all; that's not evidence. You don't want to revisit the old 'Duck Egg Blue' debate I'm sure?

 

By the way Vincent, what's the source for your statement that RLM76 became a primer? As opposed to a finishing colour applied directly to bare metal?

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Thanks Vincent; that seems like a fair suggestion to consider.

 

It's noteworthy that we don't appear to see much evidence of flaking/worn paint on contemporary Luftwaffe pictures (I'm thinking of the degree to which  Japanese aircraft suffered from flaking/worn paint in the final years of the war), so when an airframe was painted, it was done to a fairly high standard by and large.

 

Perhaps its also possible that towards the end of the war the expected lifetime of the airframe might be measured in days, rather than weeks or months?  Then we see increasing tolerance of bare metal or incomplete painting of airframes (especially Me262s, Fw190s and He162s).

 

It would be interesting to know how well RLM76 (or any RLM paint) adhered to bare metal, as opposed to a primer paint.

 

Padraic

 

 

 

Edited by Padraic Conway
Correct grammatical atrocity

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14 minutes ago, Vincent/MDC said:

 

the combo rlm76 will stay on until end of time OR until a crack appears in the outer layer of the paint. Then it will slowly start to chain flake as corrosion makes it way underneath the outer layer which is typically semi gloss. Upon drying the "varnish" part of the paint migrate to the surface while the pigments and passivizing components stay in a rather porous state so that the metal can flex without the paint cracking.

 

But it was good stuff, until the very end. What wasn't good at the end were the painters and the way they applied the paints.

 

I will give you an example : one finnish G2/trop rebuilt in 1943 spent about 60 years in the baltic. When lifted, the RLM79 on the wings was basically like new

 

So perhaps it was very effective both with or without a primer undercoat?

There's certainly photographic evidence of RLM76 applied directly to bare metal late war (thinking of Bf109G wings in handling crates at Prague airport) and RLM81 applied to the metal sides of Me262s (Yellow 3 of KG(J)54 - the subject of the Experten decals) where the panel sealant can be seen through the green paint.

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There's a series of Signal magazine photos of one of the Bf 109G production lines where all the aircraft are painted in a light blue colour (I always thought it looked more like RLM 65 but that could be due to age of photos etc). The use of 76 as a primer answers the overall application of the colour which had in the past seemed a little illogical. That would also explain (as we'd touched on way back - Gazzas I believe) the overall 76 airframes coming out of Mtt after they lost their paint shop.

 

I can't get to my books at the moment, but I'm sure there's a two part number reference for RLM colours. If I recall half refers to the pigment and the other (I suppose) to whether it was a 'primer' or non-'primer' I suppose it may also have indicated whether it was suitable for 'priming' metal or wood.

 

Case in point I recall is RLM 99 which could have been the red oxide colour or a green hue or others as the 99 referred to the priming quality, not the colour. Am I horribly wrong there?

 

Matt

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I believe I have seen the images of Me 262s with a very thin spray of RLM 81 that does allow the putty in the panel lines to show through. That would suggest that 81 maybe was also a 'combo' paint (I like that term)..

 

It would surely make sense to make any of the new primary camo colours 'combo' paint formulations for exactly the reasons you've mentioned Vincent (weight/time/resource use) why paint entire airframe in 76 if you can use the uppersurface camo colours without an undercoat as well..

 

I'd assume the formulation could be given any pigment you wished, so it'd merely be  a case of applying the RLM 81/82 pigmentation to the 'passivizing components' and you have uppersurface 'combo' paint. I suspect you may tell us it wasn't quite that straightforward? :)

 

Matt

 

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Aha! Thanks.

 

But our friends RLM 81 and 82 would be no problemo as they are (in their recorded variety) always green or brown (violet).. so they could be produced as combo paints... I can really buy into the idea of 76 becoming more green/yellowish as the quality of the blue-grey pigment got worse...

 

Thanks Vincent, I feel like I am actually learning some useful stuff here.

 

Matt

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