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D.B. Andrus

Late War RLM usage of 81/82, etc.

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8 hours ago, Gazzas said:

"concentrated pastes that were diluted at the painting stage":

  I think we've had this discussion before.  The only concentrated pastes delivered to the front that I know of for certain were for Panzers and could be diluted with fuel, water, or any number of solvents.   I doubt complicated lacquers for an aircraft meant to cover in one coat were delivered this way.  I would love to see your documentation.

 

 

I've seen the thinning ratios and solvents documented delivered to the finnish airforce when they purchased RLM65, 74, 75 and 76 from Germany through Pori

 

I doubt it was an export thing.

 

And there's nothing "complicated" about the german a/c paints. They used a bit of different philosophy when compared to british or american paints but thinning them was a pretty simple matter.

 

RLM02, RLM65, RLM76 and RLM78 were priming/camo combos, the other colors were coloring only but for one given class of paint, the thinning was the same.

 

I'm just giving the infos i have obtained over the years. Everyone is free to believe or not. What are the factual infos that you have ? can you share ?

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8 hours ago, Gazzas said:

As the Germans were struggling to produce more and more aircraft, they couldn't hold an aircraft from the front waiting on a certain color.

 

Are you serious ? If you look at the production stats for the Me109, you'll see that there wasn't a real problem with production of the a/c. There was a terrible problem with putting pilots and fuel inside the newly constructed machines but i've yet to find a wartime document stressing how the paint situation is slowing down production.

 

If you have such a document, i'd be happy that you share it with us

 

In fact, the opposite was found out by the allies as they overan Germany : they were kinda shocked how relatively unaffected the production was. What was affected big time was the delivery of machines to the units and that had nothing to do with paint.

 

There is one exception and it's the dispersed production of Me-262 and He162. There was a paint challenge as the supply chain was a bit off the normal track but even with the 262 it was a short term thing.

Edited by Vincent/MDC

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12 minutes ago, Vincent/MDC said:

 

 

 

I've seen the thinning ratios and solvents documented delivered to the finnish airforce when they purchased RLM65, 74, 75 and 76 from Germany through Pori

RLM02, RLM65, RLM76 and RLM78 were priming/camo combos, the other colors were coloring only but for one given class of paint, the thinning was the same.

 

Sachtleben Chemie, a German chemical company is affiliated with Pori, I believe. Connecting the dots.

 

I've don't recall reading that 65, 76 and 78 were the priming/camouflage combos, only 02 and other colors were not. Makes perfect sense, though.

 

My fog is clearing somewhat, thanks for that.

 

Cheers,

 

D.B.

 

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There is a new large book in the works that will have a much

 new information that will answer a lot of questions about late war colors. One is that the late war light green and was a separate color than RLM 76 light blue and sometimes was used along side of 76 . In addition there are a lot of samples of light green that was painted over 76. There are still a lot of unanswered questions but there will  lots of break through data.

       Cheers, Jerry

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1 hour ago, Vincent/MDC said:

 

Are you serious ? If you look at the production stats for the Me109, you'll see that there wasn't a real problem with production of the a/c. There was a terrible problem with putting pilots and fuel inside the newly constructed machines but i've yet to find a wartime document stressing how the paint situation is slowing down production.

 

If you have such a document, i'd be happy that you share it with us

 

In fact, the opposite was found out by the allies as they overan Germany : they were kinda shocked how relatively unaffected the production was. What was affected big time was the delivery of machines to the units and that had nothing to do with paint.

 

There is one exception and it's the dispersed production of Me-262 and He162. There was a paint challenge as the supply chain was a bit off the normal track but even with the 262 it was a short term thing.

Vincents post is spot on. The lack of aircraft wasn't a problem at the end of the war, it was the lack of fuel to put into them and the skilled pilots to fly them. 

 

Mark Proulx

Edited by Mark P

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the green is rlm76, 100% sure about that. It's the oozing that gives the impression that it's on top of normal 76 but all the parts i have show the exact same thing.

 

It doesn't make any sense that the part would be painted 76, then the green then the top camo on top of both. No book will ever prove the existence of a new color, even the most respected german researchers have not found a hint.

 

so the green not being 76 ? I hope you have some damn good original document proving it, otherwise sorry but i'm calling bs on that one (like the supposed use of rlm02 on master compasses when they were delivered in neutral grey)

Edited by Vincent/MDC

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Sorry but the light green is a separate color .PPG paint company did a scientific analysis of NASM's He 219 top color that has light green  cross hatch design over the dark gray and produced a beautiful set of color chips and the one in question is a clear light yellow green. Ask Brett Green he was there and got a chip also. A couple of other examples are Leo Klatt's D-9 o 14./JG 26 recovered in 1997 had on the under surfaces  originally  76 and was over painted in light green . Another was Werner Zech's  "Black 8" W.Nr. 211028 had the under surface color light green over painted  76 light blue. These are not my words but the recovery  team's. We have a lot of samples of this light green. One of them is a small oval panel  from a JG 6 A-8 that was original 76 and over painted with light green. You can see some of these in my book along with the compass that is painted in original RLM 02. By the way I'm not the author of this new big book.

     Cheers, Jerry                                                                                                                                                                           

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The paste idea makes sense. If it worked for tanks, it ought to work for planes. I also consider the life-time of a 1944 plane would be shorter than a 1941 plane.

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7 hours ago, Jerry Crandall said:

The total weight for the camouflage paint on a Fw 190 was 4.4 pounds.

    Cheers, Jerry

 

A gallon of paint weighs approximately 10 lbs.  This doesn’t seem correct.  

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8 minutes ago, John1 said:

A gallon of paint weighs approximately 10 lbs.  This doesn’t seem correct.  

 

That 10 lbs includes the solvents that will evaporate away.

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15 minutes ago, RBrown said:

 

That 10 lbs includes the solvents that will evaporate away.

Yeah, I’m aware of that but 4.4 lbs to completely cover an aircraft still seems low. 

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