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D.B. Andrus

Late War RLM usage of 81/82, etc.

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Hi

 

If the Dora from Schwerin went to the Gathow folks I am not surprised it's not done yet. The Gathow museum is belonging to the German government, it's the official Luftwaffe Museum and as such very much at the end of the food chain funds wise... If you follow the news, Germany has a very severe problem with it's defence organisations right now...no men, no material, bad management...I think we could not even defend ourselfs against Lichtenstein without foreign help right now.

About the paint job...I think it is very hard for a paint guy today, working on a multi million $ plane, to really blotch those mottles on with the same motivation and probably crappy tools that they used back then. I am sure such a motteling job did not take more then 30min to complete in total with the limitation of using as little paint as possible...I wonder how long Jerry Crandell worked on yellow 10...?

 

cheers

Uwe

Edited by anj4de

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34 minutes ago, anj4de said:

..I wonder how long Jerry Crandell worked on yellow 10...?

 

To correct a common misconception, Jerry was not involved in the physical painting of the D-13. He arrived after it was done and if I recall correctly he was disappointed in the result.

 

Cheers,

D.B.

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44 minutes ago, D.B. Andrus said:

 

To correct a common misconception, Jerry was not involved in the physical painting of the D-13. He arrived after it was done and if I recall correctly he was disappointed in the result.

 

Cheers,

D.B.

Ok...did not know that. I think the paint job of yellow 10 looks a bit overdone and sharp, contrast wise...not sure how to explain it. Just not sloppy enough... ;-)

 

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Here is the image provided by Warbird without the annotation...

33032695878_1e8797d489_o.png

 

One of the two Fw 190s at the center of the photograph was also captured in a well known color photo...

31966880477_bb04db2958_k.jpg

 

and both in a short film clip, as shown in the following screen captures.

31966896017_53b4a1423d_b.jpg

 

46855944892_ea44cff729_b.jpg

 

46908102781_cd6aa0d12f_b.jpg

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...oh what a horror, my heart is bleeding! Is it known if this pile was recycled of it was was maybe burried in the ground...?

 

cheers

Uwe

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5 hours ago, Troy Molitor said:

Have you ever noticed the mottling sprayed back in the mid forties seems impossible to replicate today?   Martins pictures represent this well.  I haven’t seen a good example yet on any recent Bf -109 restoration that can replicate this low pressure mottling method.  

 

Commenting on mattlow examples of colors found under the multiple post war layers of paint.     A prime example of what the colors were in fact back in the 40’s is fantastic to read about.  Examples being the F4f wildcat in the U.K  the bird cage F4U from Lake Michigan, the He-162 in France and the Aussie birds mentioned above.  

 

Does anyone remember the FW-190 D-9 pulled from Lake Schwerin in November 1990?   The color pictures can be found on the Berlin museum web site on the actual date of the recovery.  The notable late war RLM 76 in the duck egg blue.   The RLM 82 on the forward fuselage and the black white spiral spinner.  Same black and white RVD bands for the JG-26.  I can’t believe its been almost 29-30 years and this aircraft has never been finished.  I also want to cringe at the thought of someone trying to paint this aircraft to represent what it actually looked like when recovered.   The FW 190 D-13 comes to mind here!   Post war paint schemes never really seem to represent a period mid forties painted aircraft.  I certainly hope this particular aircraft is finally finished and put on display.   The world could always use another Dora on display!   

 

Troy. 

You got a link? I have tried earlier to find it on Google. 

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Rigor, Hardcore.  

 

Please try this one.  http://www.daedalus-berlin.de/Fw190D9_bergung.htm 

 

Some pictures of the bigger pieces being displayed when the Dora was brought to the surface.  I have an older magazine that came out of England around this time, Warbirds international (?) early 1990’s.  The a/c had some high resolution pictures of this aircraft coming to the surface.  The entire nose section with cowling, spinner all the way back to the fwd canopy section were shown in color.  My magazines are not with me at this time but the pictures are still etched in my mind.   I recall reading the RVD bands were brush painted and some of the bristles were in the white and black paint.    Enjoy!   Hope it works.  

 

Troy 

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Just did a little experiment - mixed 15 drops of Tamiya spray lacquer Light Blue(RLM 76) with a drop of Mr. Color Zinc Chromate Yellow and got what looks like the greenish 76 on Vincent K.'s D-9 cannon port cover. Hmmmm...looks promising.

 

Cheers,

 

D.B.

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3 hours ago, D.B. Andrus said:

Just did a little experiment - mixed 15 drops of Tamiya spray lacquer Light Blue(RLM 76) with a drop of Mr. Color Zinc Chromate Yellow and got what looks like the greenish 76 on Vincent K.'s D-9 cannon port cover. Hmmmm...looks promising.

 

Cheers,

 

D.B.

How does that compare to tamiya XF-21 SKY? I use that one for some of my late messerschmitts. 

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1 hour ago, Hardcore said:

How does that compare to tamiya XF-21 SKY? I use that one for some of my late messerschmitts. 

 

Less intense than sky, but whatever works for you is good. :)

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3 hours ago, D.B. Andrus said:

Less intense than sky, but whatever works for you is good. :)

 

I'll be using XF-21 as a base for the rear end of a '109 that I'm currently working on, perhaps altering it a tad with some yellow and/or white.

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I just read through this entire 13 page discussion again.   What a great topic for discussion.  I can make my own hypotheses on what has been presented in pictures, fist hand knowledge, vender information and people who remember during those difficult times.  Some have contributed with first hand knowledge with examples in their own personal collections.  The suggestions on manufacturers supply limititations and area of production also seem to come in play.   Case in point with the Rostock early He-162 with the contractor RLM 70/65 wooden wings and solid RLM 70 ailerons. My thinking certainly is in parallel with several contributors already mentioned.  Im rather saddened that some can only see their side of an issue and they need to take their ball and go home.  The majority have contributed and influenced my own decisions and Im certainly grateful for ALL the fantastic contribution and discussion so far.  Brilliant.  I would love a book on this topic someday as someone I admir and respect has already mentioned.  

 

Two points I’d like to mention.

I was a mechanic and later an officer who worked on then later flew AH-1 Cobras in the US Army National Guard.  My memory for things I’d like to think,  is superb.  Case in point however, I couldn’t tell you what the interior color of the Cobra cockpit is until I looked this up a few weekends ago.  Seriously!  Mr Color 317 Gray FS36231.  Research is key.  Memory simply fades over time.  

 

Last item.  I need your help!   Appearently,  some of the late Heinkel production aircraft (W/Nr.120076-120230) had a splinter camoflage consisting of RLM 81/82 applied at the factory.   One of these birds, Weiss “20” brought to the U.K for evaluation had this splinter camoflage on it.   I have searched and searched and I have only one sort of conclusive picture .  I’d like more evidence if anyone has some great pictures?  Please look?   I have one High resolution photo of the side BWM cowling but  I’d love more conclusive information.  The quest goes on gent’s!

 

Thanks for ALL the contributions so far. Just a brilliant LSP contribution and topic.  ( As usual). 

 

Troy 

Troy 

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