LSP_Kevin Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 hours ago, mattlow said: [...] 'Point Cooke' (is that the Australian War Memorial?) [...] No, the AWM is in Canberra, whereas Point Cook is an outlying suburb of Melbourne, probably a half-hour drive from where I live. Point Cook is where the RAAF Museum is based. Kev D.B. Andrus, Martinnfb and Troy Molitor 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattlow Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 minute ago, LSP_Kevin said: No, the AWM is in Canberra, whereas Point Cook is an outlying suburb of Melbourne, probably a half-hour drive from where I live. Point Cook is where the RAAF Museum is based. Thanks for the clarification Kev... Matt LSP_Kevin and Martinnfb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B. Andrus Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, mattlow said: Well, not to be contrary or anything, but any of these machines that have been painted over rather than stripped and 'restored' are still very valuable because the original paint is still there. The layers can be sanded down through and notes made of the paint layers. Two examples come to mind, the AWM have done an 'excavation by sanding' on the Me 262, black X and most remarkably, the Fleet Air Arm museum at Yeovilton (not a million miles from me) have sanded a FAA Corsair back down to its original markings.. I mean it isn't pristine, but it is the original finish. Matt In my own imprecise way I was trying to make the point that the finishes are not original, not that they weren't useful. We are 100% on the same page. Thank you for your contributions to the thread. Fascinating subject, isn't it? Cheers, D.B. Martinnfb and Troy Molitor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattlow Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 17 hours ago, D.B. Andrus said: Fascinating subject, isn't it? Absolutely... D.B. Andrus and Martinnfb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martinnfb Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 (edited) FE-500 was overpainted and on the picture posted by Ron you can see sanding of the surface, probably in attempt to deal with it's delamination The operational history of the National Air and Space Museum's Me 163 B-1a, Werk-Nummer (serial number) 191301, remains obscure. One of five Me 163s brought to the United States after the war, it arrived at Freeman Field, Indiana, during the summer of 1945. There it received the foreign equipment code FE-500. On April 12, 1946, it was flown aboard a cargo aircraft to the U.S. Army Air Forces facility at Muroc dry lake in California for flight testing. Testing began there on May 3, 1946 in the presence of Dr. Alexander Lippisch and involved towing the unfueled Komet behind a B-29 to an altitude of 9,000 to 10,500 m (30,000 to 35,000 ft) before it was released for a glide back to earth under the control of test pilot Major Gus Lundquist. Powered tests were planned, but not carried out after delamination of the aircraft's wooden wings was discovered. It was then stored at Norton AFB, California until 1954, when it was transferred to the Smithsonian Institution. The aircraft remained on display in an unrestored condition at the museum's Paul E. Garber Restoration and Storage Facility in Suitland, Maryland, until 1996, when it was lent to the Mighty Eighth Air Force Heritage Museum in Savannah, Georgia. It is currently displayed at the Museum's Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center in Chantilly, VA. Data Source National Air and Space Museum Edited January 26, 2019 by Martinnfb mattlow, Troy Molitor and D.B. Andrus 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattlow Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 And courtesy of the San Diego Air & Space Museum...... here she is before re-painting... Lovely quality colour photo... Part of a set with some other tasty Luftwaffe, IJAF and US types... Messerschmitt Me163A, 191301, Wright Field, 1946 victory display 003920015 by SDASM Archives, on Flickr Gazzas and D.B. Andrus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattlow Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Cleaned up version I found... looks like a newer scan of the original slide..? DSC07669 by Matt Low, on Flickr Gazzas and D.B. Andrus 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigor Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Martin. Matt great pics. You guys notice the up camo on the beast behind the 163 oh an great link Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padraic Conway Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 5:15 PM, rigor said: Martin. Matt great pics. You guys notice the up camo on the beast behind the 163 oh an great link Matt That's the Ju290 'Alles Kaputt' flown across the North Atlantic by Col Watson. Sadly I'm pretty sure that she had been repainted by the time this picture was taken. D.B. Andrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Molitor Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Have you ever noticed the mottling sprayed back in the mid forties seems impossible to replicate today? Martins pictures represent this well. I haven’t seen a good example yet on any recent Bf -109 restoration that can replicate this low pressure mottling method. Commenting on mattlow examples of colors found under the multiple post war layers of paint. A prime example of what the colors were in fact back in the 40’s is fantastic to read about. Examples being the F4f wildcat in the U.K the bird cage F4U from Lake Michigan, the He-162 in France and the Aussie birds mentioned above. Does anyone remember the FW-190 D-9 pulled from Lake Schwerin in November 1990? The color pictures can be found on the Berlin museum web site on the actual date of the recovery. The notable late war RLM 76 in the duck egg blue. The RLM 82 on the forward fuselage and the black white spiral spinner. Same black and white RVD bands for the JG-26. I can’t believe its been almost 29-30 years and this aircraft has never been finished. I also want to cringe at the thought of someone trying to paint this aircraft to represent what it actually looked like when recovered. The FW 190 D-13 comes to mind here! Post war paint schemes never really seem to represent a period mid forties painted aircraft. I certainly hope this particular aircraft is finally finished and put on display. The world could always use another Dora on display! Troy. Padraic Conway and D.B. Andrus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anj4de Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 (edited) Hi If the Dora from Schwerin went to the Gathow folks I am not surprised it's not done yet. The Gathow museum is belonging to the German government, it's the official Luftwaffe Museum and as such very much at the end of the food chain funds wise... If you follow the news, Germany has a very severe problem with it's defence organisations right now...no men, no material, bad management...I think we could not even defend ourselfs against Lichtenstein without foreign help right now. About the paint job...I think it is very hard for a paint guy today, working on a multi million $ plane, to really blotch those mottles on with the same motivation and probably crappy tools that they used back then. I am sure such a motteling job did not take more then 30min to complete in total with the limitation of using as little paint as possible...I wonder how long Jerry Crandell worked on yellow 10...? cheers Uwe Edited January 28, 2019 by anj4de D.B. Andrus and Gazzas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warbird Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 A couple of 190 and a K4. Colors legend is not from me. Note the low 81/82 contrast. D.B. Andrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B. Andrus Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 34 minutes ago, anj4de said: ..I wonder how long Jerry Crandell worked on yellow 10...? To correct a common misconception, Jerry was not involved in the physical painting of the D-13. He arrived after it was done and if I recall correctly he was disappointed in the result. Cheers, D.B. Troy Molitor, Alburymodeler and Martinnfb 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anj4de Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 44 minutes ago, D.B. Andrus said: To correct a common misconception, Jerry was not involved in the physical painting of the D-13. He arrived after it was done and if I recall correctly he was disappointed in the result. Cheers, D.B. Ok...did not know that. I think the paint job of yellow 10 looks a bit overdone and sharp, contrast wise...not sure how to explain it. Just not sloppy enough... ;-) D.B. Andrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBrown Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Here is the image provided by Warbird without the annotation... One of the two Fw 190s at the center of the photograph was also captured in a well known color photo... and both in a short film clip, as shown in the following screen captures. D.B. Andrus and Martinnfb 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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