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Hobby Boss 1/32 B-24J - Initial Observations

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3 hours ago, LSP_Ray said:

A 3D print of the turret assembly may be the best silution, sized to fit the space. Probably expensive though.

Bingo.  And working on it.  

For what it's worth a turret interior would probably cost less than $1 for materials.  Same for the exterior.  The actual cost is in time to design, print, package, and ship the stuff.  

But still, working on it.   Plan in order is:

 

ERCO spherical

Martin A3C dorsal

Martin A3D dorsal

Emerson A15 nose

MPC A6B 

MPC A6

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20 hours ago, titan said:

Bingo.  And working on it.  

For what it's worth a turret interior would probably cost less than $1 for materials.  Same for the exterior.  The actual cost is in time to design, print, package, and ship the stuff.  

But still, working on it.   Plan in order is:

 

ERCO spherical

Martin A3C dorsal

Martin A3D dorsal

Emerson A15 nose

MPC A6B 

MPC A6

 

 

Wow excellent news titan! I'd expect a set of OOB turrets to well and a set of PB4Y-1 turrets to sell well too. I know I'll buy 1 of each sets likely, with an OOB set to start.

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I'm curious as to what owners of this kit would be willing to pay for a set of seamless domed replacement turrets?  Where is the threshold between "no problem" and "woah! I wasn't expecting that" 

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48 minutes ago, 109ace said:

I'm curious as to what owners of this kit would be willing to pay for a set of seamless domed replacement turrets?  Where is the threshold between "no problem" and "woah! I wasn't expecting that" 

 

To be honest ... I'd say it will depend upon the quality of the murch' ... and the overall 'look' achieved.

People pay drug money for Eduard Brassin replacements because they look stunning - the finish is much more crisp than the original kit parts.

I for one, won't go anywhere near vac ... unless the end result is absolutely outstanding - and even then I'm cautious.

If a replacement assembly is cast in clear resin or moulded plastic (albeit with the parts assembling in a different manner in order to avoid the weird seam placement on the original) ... then I'm in! Sub $100 (AUD) is the value I'd put on a full resin B24 Turret update set - given the sort of pricing for the Eduard gear.

 

Rog :)

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3 hours ago, Artful69 said:

To be honest ... I'd say it will depend upon the quality of the murch' ... and the overall 'look' achieved.

+1 on this, would decide based on quality

however I can imagine to pay up to 200€ for definitive full AM set (turrets, all PEs, engines, seatbelts, wheels, barrells, undercarriage, masks, decals)

jan

 

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This is all very intriguing and I will be interested to see how Ian goes on with his wing correction. Regarding turrets, no one has compared the HB units with the WNW Lancaster. I know we are talking a different cost philosophy and I'm very glad that HB have produced this 'starting point' but, clearly, it is possible to produce very accurate, thin glazed turrets in this scale. It strikes me that the likes of Aries/Quickboost would/could do a beautiful job in resin - comparable to their resin cockpits if the demand was great enough. In fact I'm slightly surprised that an after market company haven't already started doing turrets for the B-25 and B-17 although the B-24 has 'more' different turrets than either the 25 or 17. The glazing is the big issue. In the UK Alleycat have done some very nice clear replacement resin canopies although I believe casting in clear resin is far more demanding than the cream opaque stuff. We don't need guns, we already have various choices on the market, it's fine detail turrets and glazing that we need. How much should a nose/tail or top turret cost? £20 apiece? Actually thats still cheap compared to the cost of the kit! 

 

Simon

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I'd venture to say I could model most of the detail bits I want, belts, gauges,  visible parts through windows, and engine wiring. The turrets though, I'd pay for a nice PE/resin set of those. As for the cost, people usually find a way to pay for the quality bits they want.

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4 hours ago, Artful69 said:

 

To be honest ... I'd say it will depend upon the quality of the murch' ... and the overall 'look' achieved.

People pay drug money for Eduard Brassin replacements because they look stunning - the finish is much more crisp than the original kit parts.

I for one, won't go anywhere near vac ... unless the end result is absolutely outstanding - and even then I'm cautious.

If a replacement assembly is cast in clear resin or moulded plastic (albeit with the parts assembling in a different manner in order to avoid the weird seam placement on the original) ... then I'm in! Sub $100 (AUD) is the value I'd put on a full resin B24 Turret update set - given the sort of pricing for the Eduard gear.

 

Rog :)

I hear "clear resin" used a lot. Here's a fact about clear resin. It takes 24 hours to cure. and there is no bigger kick in the balls then to wait a day to pull parts out of a mold and find that dreaded defect. Bubble, void, chip. It's into the dust bin with it. One manufacturer relied on clear resin to make replacement clear parts for a very popular model. They were stunning in pictures.They also were pricey at near or over $40. They also eventually turned yellow, complaints flowed in, and are no longer made. So that leaves two choices. Vacuforming, or injection molding. Vacuform requires little up front investment. Injection molding can require thousands of dollars in tool and die work, and subcontracting the production. 

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49 minutes ago, 109ace said:

I hear "clear resin" used a lot. Here's a fact about clear resin. It takes 24 hours to cure. and there is no bigger kick in the balls then to wait a day to pull parts out of a mold and find that dreaded defect. Bubble, void, chip. It's into the dust bin with it. One manufacturer relied on clear resin to make replacement clear parts for a very popular model. They were stunning in pictures.They also were pricey at near or over $40. They also eventually turned yellow, complaints flowed in, and are no longer made. So that leaves two choices. Vacuforming, or injection molding. Vacuform requires little up front investment. Injection molding can require thousands of dollars in tool and die work, and subcontracting the production. 

 

Most of what you have said on a technical basis here is NOT true....

Clear is tricky, I know I basically with a few others really pioneered the use of it a few years ago when I owned the Alley Cat range.

As has been said many times over the material properties had to change at least within Europe, but I believe the rest of the world has as well. So for the last few years it has been very difficult to get good cast parts.

I have a replacement 1/32 P-51 canopy in the works......well it has been for a while, I am hoping that there is some solutions around the corner (many trials have been done)....if so then I shall be back producing clear cast resin parts, however will wait and see I do not want to make too many promises just yet!!!!!! Small parts are being done as in the 1/48 light set I do for the Sea Fury but larger parts are still a little problematic.

If it can be done I know I can do it, and what I did previously many know that I can produce good clear cast parts that stood the test of time.

Yes they are more expensive because the resin is 5 times the cost of normal resin, the process takes longer (but not 24 hours) and making the masters IS A LOT MORE demanding.....

 

cheers Ali

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1 hour ago, Ali62 said:

 

Most of what you have said on a technical basis here is NOT true....

Clear is tricky, I know I basically with a few others really pioneered the use of it a few years ago when I owned the Alley Cat range.

As has been said many times over the material properties had to change at least within Europe, but I believe the rest of the world has as well. So for the last few years it has been very difficult to get good cast parts.

I have a replacement 1/32 P-51 canopy in the works......well it has been for a while, I am hoping that there is some solutions around the corner (many trials have been done)....if so then I shall be back producing clear cast resin parts, however will wait and see I do not want to make too many promises just yet!!!!!! Small parts are being done as in the 1/48 light set I do for the Sea Fury but larger parts are still a little problematic.

If it can be done I know I can do it, and what I did previously many know that I can produce good clear cast parts that stood the test of time.

Yes they are more expensive because the resin is 5 times the cost of normal resin, the process takes longer (but not 24 hours) and making the masters IS A LOT MORE demanding.....

 

cheers Ali

Sorry Ali. I visit my resin supplier once a week. Reynolds Material Services in Countryside IL. They are one of the largest nation wide suppliers of resin casting and molding products in the USA. I have discussed the issues of clear resin casting with them. I didn't make up the 24 hour cure time for Clear resin. It states so right on the product description. I will await your P-51 canopies. One other cottage industry AM maker tried and failed already.  Best of luck.  What I have said is true and not made up. 

Edited by 109ace

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5 hours ago, 109ace said:

I hear "clear resin" used a lot. Here's a fact about clear resin. It takes 24 hours to cure. and there is no bigger kick in the balls then to wait a day to pull parts out of a mold and find that dreaded defect. Bubble, void, chip. It's into the dust bin with it. One manufacturer relied on clear resin to make replacement clear parts for a very popular model. They were stunning in pictures.They also were pricey at near or over $40. They also eventually turned yellow, complaints flowed in, and are no longer made. So that leaves two choices. Vacuforming, or injection molding. Vacuform requires little up front investment. Injection molding can require thousands of dollars in tool and die work, and subcontracting the production. 

 

Ok ... So first ... You just asked for some feed back in relation to the consumer market ... and I just gave you one point of view ... only one ... and only mine. While I'm sure that many, many others will agree with me ... I'm also sure that many others will have a different point of view.

 

So here's a few fun facts of my own :D ... I have clear resin parts for quite a few kits (Fisher, HpH and AIMS - just to mention a few) ... and never experienced an issue with any of them (some are over 7 years old) ... I DO however have some yellowed clear vac parts!! ... and while it seems to me that some vac parts made these days are light years ahead of what used to be around - they cannot compete with resin for crispness of detail ... which is why resin is such a popular medium for corrections - the product is very close to the original IM plastic for texture and detail. So it seems to me that ANY product, made by anyone, can go awry. Also ... I've been around long enough now to understand that in any process, there are equipment costs, processing costs, time etc ... and failure rates ... it's all just a part of production.

 

So as you can see ... there are clearly not just two choices.

What (I think?) you were trying to say here  - is that there's only one viable option FOR YOU as manufacturer ... correct? ... and that's ok :D ...

I just gave you my criteria list ... that is all ... and I'm quite sure that someone out there will produce replacements in clear resin, moulded plastic or 3D print in time.

I'm in no hurry ... but I'd rather pay more for something that looks like it was supposed to be a part of the kit than something that looks (to me) to be an obvious substitution or add-on.

 

Rog :)

 

 

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I will spring for the $45 bottles of clear resin just to enlighten myself first hand, on it's use. Thank you Rog for your input. If experiments show promising results, at the worst, I'd have to make 20 molds of the same part to keep production moving on a daily basis. With my 1/48 B-24 turret sets I've had sales of 10 sets to one customer. So it can get hairy. But it's the exception and not the norm.

Edited by 109ace

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20 hours ago, 109ace said:

I'm curious as to what owners of this kit would be willing to pay for a set of seamless domed replacement turrets?  Where is the threshold between "no problem" and "woah! I wasn't expecting that" 

 

Depends how good they are.

 

As long as they are reasonably accurate I am fine, *but* the quality needs to match an injection moulded turret.

 

i would pay say £50 as long as the quality was right; maybe more, but I’d need to be confident of what I was getting.

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