Hobby Boss 1/32 B-24J - Initial Observations

[John1]

13 minutes ago, LSP_Mike said:

What is your point? Endlessly running the conversation down is not really helping to find fixes to the kit. Yes, the turrets need help. we have some members working on that, and any experienced modeler ought to realize that the next year will bring a wide variety of AM parts, and upgrades, and they will be used.

 

Really Mike?  I flagged an issue with the kit that I don't believe anyone had completely addressed (turret interior), went to the trouble of finding and posting a picture of the real thing to try to illustrate the issue and you decide to call me out for "endlessly running down the conversation"?  Sorry that I harshed your mellow. 

 

You have an issue with my posts?  You're an admin - go back and delete all of them or if you think it's warranted, simply close my account here.  I've read the rules of the road and am pretty sure I haven't broken any of them but hey, it's your forum, do whatever you need to do.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PhilB]

29 minutes ago, LSP_Mike said:

What is your point? Endlessly running the conversation down is not really helping to find fixes to the kit.

+1 !

Plastic gun barrels can rarely get anywhere near as crisp as the beautiful brass ones we see now from people like Master .

For the relatively cheap price, replacing kit gun barrels with brass is almost a given thing now.

 

[LSP_Mike]

John, you can't harsh my mellow , so let's try to stick to what is in front of us. Yes, the turret needs work. Yes, people are working on it. Yes, you did post a photo of a real turret. Does all that add up to the kit part being essentially unusable? no. it can be accurrised , but I realize the turret is a series of compromises as regards plastic thickness, and parts stability, it is not so botched as to be unusable. We, as modelers all benefit from stepping back and accepting this. If all kits were so good, we would never have had the aftermarket explosion that started in the 80s.

 I don't see any need for all the aggressive posturing, wheras I have suggested we seek solutions for kit issues as they are found, not just running the kit down. That does nothing. As stated a few posts back, I'm sure Eduard could release a PE turret set to bring things more in line with the pic you posted. The only other alternatives I see are to build OOB, or spend the time working the parts to get the more to scale  Each modeler will have their own take on that.

[109ace]

4 minutes ago, LSP_Mike said:

John, you can't harsh my mellow , so let's try to stick to what is in front of us. Yes, the turret needs work. Yes, people are working on it. Yes, you did post a photo of a real turret. Does all that add up to the kit part being essentially unusable? no. it can be accurrised , but I realize the turret is a series of compromises as regards plastic thickness, and parts stability, it is not so botched as to be unusable. We, as modelers all benefit from stepping back and accepting this. If all kits were so good, we would never have had the aftermarket explosion that started in the 80s.

 I don't see any need for all the aggressive posturing, wheras I have suggested we seek solutions for kit issues as they are found, not just running the kit down. That does nothing. As stated a few posts back, I'm sure Eduard could release a PE turret set to bring things more in line with the pic you posted. The only other alternatives I see are to build OOB, or spend the time working the parts to get the more to scale  Each modeler will have their own take on that.

from looking at these turrets, both real and miniature, I will say there isn't an easy solution. If interiors are done in photoetch, they will be a twisted bent up mess before a dome is placed over them. many parts can not be done in photoetch as they have too much dimension and body to them. some of these parts are too thick for brass and too thin for resin. Then price needs to be considered as these interiors are small models in themselves. What's the limit to what the masses are willing to invest in such turrets? Yes, I know for some, there is no limit to achieve perfection. I hate to say it, but a shot at making an interior that is simple, yet convincingly busy from 2 feet away may be the best the modeler is going to get. 

[LSP_Mike]

Agreed.Each turret will be a mini model in and of itself. A resin/PE set may be the way forward, and each will have to decide how to go. I don't think there is an easy solution, but I do know these posted parts are where we are starting from.

[Out2gtcha]

Agreed, the turrets are off, but as Mike suggested, if we stick to attempting to find fixes for the things off in the kit that can be fixed and keeping things in perspective, instead of focusing on the negatives we (and the entire conversation) will be much better off.

 

As to the turrets themselves, they are off, but I'd almost rather have the outside shape on and some brass barrels vs having the interior on IF I had to choose, considering a whole new interior for each turret could double or even triple the cost to the modeler, not to mention having to sculpt it all to fit.

 

I'm not saying all new turrets with full accurate interiors is not possible, I'm just saying with these in scale, there may have to be some concessions made in the name of cost, fit or engineering.

 

 

[Ryan]

Posted 2 hours ago

Agreed, the turrets are off, but as Mike suggested, if we stick to attempting to find fixes for the things off in the kit that can be fixed and keeping things in perspective, instead of focusing on the negatives we (and the entire conversation) will be much better off.

 

As to the turrets themselves, they are off, but I'd almost rather have the outside shape on and some brass barrels vs having the interior on IF I had to choose, considering a whole new interior for each turret could double or even triple the cost to the modeler, not to mention having to sculpt it all to fit.

 

I'm not saying all new turrets with full accurate interiors is not possible, I'm just saying with these in scale, there may have to be some concessions made in the name of cost, fit or engineering.

 

 

I am reminded about what Verlinden has written about being OK if certain details are a little bigger than scale.

 

Yes I have forgotten where I read that.

 

Ryan

Edited December 26, 2018 by Ryan

[LSP_Ray]

A 3D print of the turret assembly may be the best silution, sized to fit the space. Probably expensive though.

[Johnny Redburn]

Hey it's a B-24...has problems but hey it's a B-24 I have the J but really want the D version!!! but hey its a B-24!!!

[Lee White]

11 minutes ago, Johnny Redburn said:

Hey it's a B-24...has problems but hey it's a B-24 I have the J but really want the D version!!! but hey its a B-24!!!

Nothing new there. Every time Monogram re-released their B-24, there was folks that were perturbed that it wasn't the OTHER version.

[Kagemusha]

For those interested in a Coastal Command Liberator the Eduard instructions for their recent kits should prove useful; Late Liberator, Early Liberator, and not forgetting this book.

 

Then there's always 100 Group Liberators.

[Iain]

I'm writing up the review for LSP at present - 190 photos uploaded so far!!

 

 

 

 

I will include thoughts on errors/improvements - but it won't constitute a full 'tweaks list' as yet.

 

Whilst the engines are basic - some details are very nice.

 

I've spotted some other areas that I'll address in my build - will outline them in review - and attempt to fix in the build thread.

 

As said earlier in this thread - I think I can fix the look of the wings (which I recon are too thick towards the tips as well - but need to confirm that).

 

With a fair wind I'm hoping to publish review at the weekend.

 

Happy modelling!

 

Iain

[Nigels modelling bench]

Just a thought guys, before anyone heads off making new turrets and using the kit parts as patterns, have HB perhaps downsized the turrets to fit within the plastic walls of the nose and tail? It could be that we need to shave the thickness to get a better representation of the sheet metal in that area, thus enabling a correctly scaled turret to fit into "the hole"?

 

Just sayin???

 

 

[LSP_Matt]

7 hours ago, John1 said:

 

Really Mike?  I flagged an issue with the kit that I don't believe anyone had completely addressed (turret interior), went to the trouble of finding and posting a picture of the real thing to try to illustrate the issue and you decide to call me out for "endlessly running down the conversation"?  Sorry that I harshed your mellow. 

 

You have an issue with my posts?  You're an admin - go back and delete all of them or if you think it's warranted, simply close my account here.  I've read the rules of the road and am pretty sure I haven't broken any of them but hey, it's your forum, do whatever you need to do.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Our expectations are that you self-moderate. If you're annoyed and want to take a crack, our expectation is that you don't.  We don't tolerate antagonism manifested as sarcasm from any members. Either towards each other and especially directed at volunteer staff.  We expect staff to be treated with respect and this post above just isn't it.

 

But no bridges have been blown...yet. We're interested in your analysis of the kit and in what you can clearly contribute for the benefit of the entire membership. Best achieved by keeping your comments/criticism constructive and adjusting your tone when staff flag it as an issue in threads.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Matt

[titan]

3 hours ago, LSP_Ray said:

A 3D print of the turret assembly may be the best silution, sized to fit the space. Probably expensive though.

Bingo.  And working on it.  

For what it's worth a turret interior would probably cost less than $1 for materials.  Same for the exterior.  The actual cost is in time to design, print, package, and ship the stuff.  

But still, working on it.   Plan in order is:

 

ERCO spherical

Martin A3C dorsal

Martin A3D dorsal

Emerson A15 nose

MPC A6B 

MPC A6