Revell Bf 109 G-10 Erla

[Pastor John]

Hi Matt yes I noted that on the photo I posted some time ago, looks like white backgrounds to the black stencils - why not just use white paint for the stencil???????? Not sure if the Erla G-10s would have been totally reconditioned with a new paint scheme covering over the RLM 76 where older stencils were - earlier sub types yes but not these. I have to look again at all the other green 109 G-10s to see what i can see - certainly the MW50 stencil on the photo i posted shows no masking off so perhaps like I say they are just white blocks plus black stencilling??? But maybe only the machine I have mentioned and not all of them - I will look into it, thanks again Matt

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by Pastor John

[Guest Vincent]

5 hours ago, Pastor John said:

Hi Matt yes I noted that on the photo I posted some time ago, looks like white backgrounds to the black stencils - why not just use white paint for the stencil???????? Not sure if the Erla G-10s would have been totally reconditioned with a new paint scheme covering over the RLM 76 where older stencils were - earlier sub types yes but not these. I have to look again at all the other green 109 G-10s to see what i can see - certainly the MW50 stencil on the photo i posted shows no masking off so perhaps like I say they are just white blocks plus black stencilling??? But maybe only the machine I have mentioned and not all of them - I will look into it, thanks again Matt

 

 

Erla G10s were brand new machines, not reconditionned in any way so that's an invalid theory

[mattlow]

HI John

 

I think I have confused you. I shouldn't have mentioned making off..  Why not use white for stencils.... because all companies probably had huge stocks of the old decals (i.e. not painted on using stencils at factory - decals - just like we use).

 

So, on the dark green ERLA machines the maintenance stencils were applied using those same decals that were printed with a light background (I assume something approximating RLM 65 or 76). That is the current wisdom... next week someone will find an ERLA dk green G-10 in a barn and discover it was all masked from a previous 74/75/76 scheme.. :).

 

Vincent is quite right that ERLA did not re-condition old airframes for their G-10s (this is an old chestnut that still comes up from time to time it was once THE received wisdom concerning all G-10s). HOWEVER, there is a chance that some ERLA G-10s (same for Mtt Regensburg and WNF/Diana) were constructed using partially assembled G-6/14 airframes (rolling fusealge, no wings or engine) which would have had much of the camouflage applied. BUT one would think that those fuselages would have been all used up by the time the dk green machines were produced...  So I would still go for decals applied to the new dk greens. In any case, the end effect would be the same, decal or masked...

 

Matt

[Guest Vincent]

The myth comes from incorrectly reading one document issued by the the RLM that stated that G10 was to be using G6 and G14 fuselages. The error comes from the fact that what was meant was that factories were to start producing DB605D powered a/c using the pattern of fuselage in current production. They of course used brand new fuselages, some of which were already partially assembled.

 

 

[John1]

I've heard about the service markings being decals before.   Does anyone happen to have any pics of the actual decals?   All the shots I've seen of unrestored German aircraft and parts show maintenance instructions painted on.  BTW, very sorry for the thread hijack.  I don't want to take anything away from Pastor John's great looking build!

Edited January 6, 2019 by John1

[Guest Vincent]

And the use of assembled g14 fuselages is documented via recovered data plates for g10 fuselages which show a g14 part number for the fuselage

[Guest Vincent]

1 minute ago, John1 said:

I've heard about the service markings being decals before.   Does anyone happen to have any pics of the actual decals?   All the shots I've seen of unrestored German aircraft and parts show maintenance instructions painted on.  BTW, very sorry for the thread hijack.  I don't want to take anything away from Pastor John's great looking build!

 

that was not that common on the 109 to use decals. it was more a junkers thing

[Scale32]

Some VERY interesting information going on here

 

Cheers Bevan

[mattlow]

Yeah, I can't find anything at the moment.. Though I did have a reference regarding the light colour behind stencils on the dk green ERLA machines as being due to use of decal. Anyway, it doesn't matter, decal or masking, the effect would be identical.

 

Any more progress John..?

 

Matt

[Pastor John]

On the model no - need to spray it gloss. As for backing of maintenance markings I think white myself but there is some variety when you look at the tail and a backing looking white on the Jg 51 tail jack looks darker on the Jg 27 machine but in both cases the marking above it looks white. Unmarked machine showing left side - markings very bright from that distance - I would say white again. Going back to the self-destroyed Jg 51 machine at Fels Am Wagram - where my Yellow 9 I am doing is a short distance away - you can see that not all these monotone upper Green machines had the lower fuselage and cowl wrapped around. The lower cowl, fuselage and elevator look to be RLM 76 and darker to the backing of the maintenance marking. 

Interestingly the reconditioned green G-14 of JG 51 also found at Fels Am Wagram does not have any of these white/pale markings as the machine is reconditioned and they have not been masked off it would seem to me. These are only my observations please, I am not all knowing or a 109 experten - just trying to make a model here! Thanks to everyone who made these photos available originally on the internet!

[Pastor John]

[Guest Vincent]

I'm not convinced that these machines left the Erla factory painted like that. More likely a depot or unit repaint/overspray.

[John1]

10 hours ago, Vincent/MDC said:

I'm not convinced that these machines left the Erla factory painted like that. More likely a depot or unit repaint/overspray.

So late in the war and given the Luftwaffe was barely flying, unless they were damaged and rebuilt, why would they have needed to go through a full re-painting?  

 

BTW, if anyone hasn't seen them, this guy has a great selection of green G-10's.  http://theprofilepaintshop.blogspot.com/search/label/Bf109G-10

 

I'm intrigued by that green G-14.  Any other pics exist of that most interesting aircraft?

[Guest Vincent]

8 hours ago, John1 said:

So late in the war and given the Luftwaffe was barely flying, unless they were damaged and rebuilt, why would they have needed to go through a full re-painting?  

 

BTW, if anyone hasn't seen them, this guy has a great selection of green G-10's.  http://theprofilepaintshop.blogspot.com/search/label/Bf109G-10

 

I'm intrigued by that green G-14.  Any other pics exist of that most interesting aircraft?

 

You would be surpised of things that were done late in the war.

I will give you one example : in one of the units (can't recall which on top of my head), a few a/c were considered "well built" and orders were given to keep them in flying condition at all cost. Since spare parts were all but gone at the end of the war, the newly received a/c, if considered rubbish after a quick test flight, were broken down for spare parts to keep the "well built" flying.

 

The many pictures taken by GIs after the war illustrate well this prcatice where hundreds of 109s were found broken down for no apparent reason.

 

Another example would be the Fw190D13 that went through 2 repaints in a short time span.

 

My theory about these green G10s is that they are these "well built" examples and that extra care was given to conceal them on the ground.

 

The late war Luftwaffe needs to be studied at the human echelon as well

 

Vincent

Edited January 8, 2019 by Vincent/MDC

[Wouter]

Interesting discussion going on here. While I'm by no means a Luftwaffe color expert, I'm actually not convinced these ac's were painted in a single color green. Looking at the pictures posted by John I can see a faint, but otherwise different shade of color, right behind the cockpits. The line goes down from the top of the canopy to the belly of the AC. Especially on the first picture it looks like a splinter camo. I'll try to illustrate with a few pictures.