Aires Cockpit Fit Issues???

[Guest Maxim]

F-14, A-7 cockpits and wheel bays drop right in. A-4 is a tight fit.

 

[Bill Cross]

8 hours ago, ericg said:

 

Please don’t do that, for those of us who are able to model our way out of small fit issues these things are easily fixed. 

This is not a SMALL fit issue. Far from it.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Bill Cross

[Bill Cross]

UPDATE:

I had a nice email from Bob at Sprue Bros. He said the sets sell well despite a lingering odor (not his words but mine) about fit issues. He offered to give me my money back. I have already assembled 60% of the 'pit and will attempt to make it fit. I have a Dremel, a dust mask and will see what I can accomplish hoping it doesn't ruin the kit. I suggested that SB might want to include a caution in their listings that these sets, while beautifully-detailed, can have SIGNIFICANT fit issues (please don't describe what I'm going through as "a small fit issue." That would be like describing the iceberg the Titanic hit as "a bit of sea ice."

 

I will also say that those of you who want me to shut up or not ask SB to discontinue Aires' products fully miss the point of these forums and my initial post: to share information as Dave suggests I didn't avail myself of. And apparently enough of you are alarmed or disgusted at the Aires fit to speak out. I think the manufacturer might want to turn his attention to making things fit better. I mean, shaving off a "little" resin is one thing. The F-104 pit (with already a significant amount removed from the sides) still causes a quarter inch gap in the nose where the fuselage halves join. That's not a "little" fit issue.

 

Will I buy from SB again? Certainly. Will I buy another Aires resin set? Only if I can be certain it will fit properly. And that in itself would make me pause, since I don't like to think every purchase has to be vetted online ahead of time. That's not modeling, that's work. Your mileage may vary.

[ade rowlands]

I think the most frustrating thing about Aires is how hit and miss it is fit wise. Some fit like a dream, like the Ju 87 cockpits, some with a little encouragement, like the 109F cockpit I used a long time ago and as for the A6M5 wheel wells I mentioned earlier in the thread, they just fall through the kit cut outs, they were shrunk by about 1mm all the way around, as I know resin is prone to do but still, maybe that should be designed in at the mould making stage. Whenever it’s likely that I’ll be adding Aires stuff to builds these days I search out as many builds of the kit I can, specifically looking for ones using the Aires bits I’m looking at. 

[Dave Williams]

18 hours ago, Bill Cross said:

 If you or anyone else doesn't agree, feel free to order some Aires stuff to counteract me (and about 10 others here), or even hide me. I make liberal use of that function.

 

Done and done.

[ericg]

Using your logic, I will email all retailers of the kits that I have recently completed (I tend to build esoteric subjects) and ask them not to sell them due to poor fit issues. This may leave me and you with no other choice but to build run of the mill and fairly yawn worthy single engine Hasegawa kits when they comply with my demand.

 

I think the label ‘for experienced modellers’  on the box should be enough to give people a heads up. 90% of the aftermarket that I have has required additional work to make it fit, including decals, weapons, wheel bays and cockpits. Some of the most expensive resin kits in my collection produced by ‘top of the line’ companies have had shocking fit issues that have not been test built at the development stage to iron these issues out. Rather than make a big song and dance about it, I have seen it as a chance to broaden and enhance my skill set coming up with a fix. I always feel that this way of thinking will serve me well moving forward into other builds when similar issues come up. 

 

You have to weigh up whether adding the detail is worth all the fuss over just building the kit and enjoying it.

 

Rather than contacting the retailer contact the manufacturer with your issue and let us know how you go.

 

Eric.

[Bill Cross]

16 hours ago, ericg said:

Using your logic, I will email all retailers of the kits that I have recently completed (I tend to build esoteric subjects) and ask them not to sell them due to poor fit issues. This may leave me and you with no other choice but to build run of the mill and fairly yawn worthy single engine Hasegawa kits when they comply with my demand.

 

I think the label ‘for experienced modellers’  on the box should be enough to give people a heads up. 90% of the aftermarket that I have has required additional work to make it fit, including decals, weapons, wheel bays and cockpits. Some of the most expensive resin kits in my collection produced by ‘top of the line’ companies have had shocking fit issues that have not been test built at the development stage to iron these issues out. Rather than make a big song and dance about it, I have seen it as a chance to broaden and enhance my skill set coming up with a fix. I always feel that this way of thinking will serve me well moving forward into other builds when similar issues come up. 

 

You have to weigh up whether adding the detail is worth all the fuss over just building the kit and enjoying it.

 

Rather than contacting the retailer contact the manufacturer with your issue and let us know how you go.

Eric, with all due respect, I don't really care whether you find my argument logical or not. You are entitled to your opinion that this is a "song and dance." And I always loved Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers, so that's no knock in my estimation.

 

I believe in speaking up about the problems I have encountered because:

1. It lets modelers/purchasers make informed decisions (someone else said that I should have done more research, so isn't it good I spoke up?)
2. It provides valuable feedback to manufacturers who may or may not act on it
3. It allows retailers to know when they may have a problem and make informed decisions about carrying a product

You seem almost afraid that Sprue Bros. might stop carrying these products. If they get complaints, then maybe they shouldn't carry them? And even if they get complaints, maybe the sales justify the occasional refund they end up giving. They offered one to me, but I have decided to wrestle this pig to the ground and hope he doesn't have sharp tusks. SB was very nice and both emailed and called me, which resulted in an informative chat about the issues I have encountered. I suggested they include an advisory on their Aires products to let customers know what they're getting into because it doesn't say "for experienced modelers" anywhere you're likely to see it.

 

But even with a warning that resin takes extra effort, there's a difference between the need to remove a gigantic pour plug, take 1/4" off a cockpit tub on both sides (breaking through to the interior in a couple of places), and a wheel bay that is too short for the kit (as another poster here mentioned).

 

I have reviewed nearly 300 kits and AM upgrades for Kitmaker Network for years, and I have worked with resin before, have friends who build resin kits, and understand resin isn't for beginners. Resin IS challenging and I'm glad you like the challenge. I don't particularly like parts that have terrible fit. Telling me I shouldn't speak up about this to SB is frankly asinine by any logic. They were certainly happy I contacted them, and that's good enough for me.

[LSP_K2]

On 11/6/2018 at 12:04 PM, ade rowlands said:

I think the most frustrating thing about Aires is how hit and miss it is fit wise. Some fit like a dream, like the Ju 87 cockpits, some with a little encouragement, like the 109F cockpit I used a long time ago and as for the A6M5 wheel wells I mentioned earlier in the thread, they just fall through the kit cut outs, they were shrunk by about 1mm all the way around, as I know resin is prone to do but still, maybe that should be designed in at the mould making stage. Whenever it’s likely that I’ll be adding Aires stuff to builds these days I search out as many builds of the kit I can, specifically looking for ones using the Aires bits I’m looking at. 

 

Sound advice there, Ade. I'm still trying to figure out (guess) how the Aires pit is to be installed in the little A6M2-N, and the instructions are no help at all. The castings, as usual, look brilliant, but I have no clue how to assemble it all for a good fit at the moment.

[LSP_Ray]

I kinda wish that Aires and other resin AM producers would give cockpit tubs and wheel wells in separate parts for each wall and floor. It would allow for a lot easier adjustment as well as ease in painting some of the detail. If it was too narrow, too wide, too shallow or too deep it would be a lot easier to shim or remove material where needed.

[PhilB]

5 hours ago, LSP_Ray said:

I kinda wish that Aires and other resin AM producers would give cockpit tubs and wheel wells in separate parts for each wall and floor. It would allow for a lot easier adjustment as well as ease in painting some of the detail. If it was too narrow, too wide, too shallow or too deep it would be a lot easier to shim or remove material where needed.

Very true.

On my Crusader (stalled ) the main gear wells are one large part and the fit was slightly off width-wise (shrinkage ?) but simple to cut it in half and fit each side individually.

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by PhilB

[ade rowlands]

Yes, these parts are ‘for experienced modellers’ which I am, I have experience, not a heck of a lot of talent but experience, yes. Whilst every resin insert I’ve ever used has never been a drop fit to the kit ( Eduard Brassin range being the closest to that mark thus far) every one has required some trimming beyond removing it from its pour stub which is fine, no problem, some have required a little more encouragement to fit, some have required outright brutality in trimming and sanding, some to the point I feared for the kits integrity. But I think from memory I’ve only junked one kit because I’d ruined it, and the resin in trying to get them to mate nicely and get along and that was a 1/48 job and doesn’t need mentioning here. BUT if the thing just doesn’t fit, I don’t care who you are how clever and talented you are no matter how many of your builds I’ve admired, you aren’t going to make it work. I go back to the example I used of the 1/32 A6M5 wheel and landing gear bays. When offering them up to the Tamiya lower wing half they did not fit in any axis, both too short and too narrow, they plain fell through the kit cut outs. Working on the kit cut outs was a no go as then they wouldn’t be correct, shimming and blending them enough to make them accept the Aires parts would render them too small and strange looking. If they had been only to short, I could have split them and shimmed them and attempted to blend that shim in, obliterating 99% of the added detail I’d bought them for in the same place, the same if they had been only to narrow. But not wide or long enough, no way, if you attempted it to prove me wrong in that regard you’d be cutting your nose off to spite your face and losing the point of buying the Aires parts for the extra detail in the first place. Now, it may be that I had a set from a defective batch, as can happen but as stated above I now search out builds using any resin parts I intend to purchase, this isn’t just limited to Aires. I put it down to a lesson learned. I’m not against purchasing their stuff for future builds, not by any stretch. 

[Bill Cross]

Ade, the fit issues are known both here on this forum and by at least one retailer. Nevertheless, folks continue to buy his stuff. Maybe they just store them away in their stash with the (unbuilt) kit?

[ade rowlands]

6 minutes ago, Bill Cross said:

Ade, the fit issues are known both here on this forum and by at least one retailer. Nevertheless, folks continue to buy his stuff. Maybe they just store them away in their stash with the (unbuilt) kit?

 

Bill I’ll buy their stuff in the future provided I’ve seen others use it with no muss and no fuss. Because it does offer so much more detail more often than not or stuff the kit manufacturer omitted. 

[Out2gtcha]

6 minutes ago, ade rowlands said:

 

Bill I’ll buy their stuff in the future provided I’ve seen others use it with no muss and no fuss. Because it does offer so much more detail more often than not or stuff the kit manufacturer omitted. 

 

 

Thats pretty much my take on Aires stuff.

I almost never build multiples of planes (my beloved F7F, P-51 and a couple others being possible exceptions) and when I build a model I want it to have the most detail and be the best example of that airplane I can, without the need to to a ton of scratch building.  I personally could never equal the detail that a lot of the Aires sets achieve, so Im very much willing to put the extra work into fitment to achieve the look I want. 

 

My SU-30 is a prime example. The Aires gear bays had to be shaved to an inch of their lives (i could legit see through them when held up to light) but the detail was incredible, and surpassed anything I was capable of, and in the end it did better in competition (undefeated in every contest I entered it in including the US NATs) and looked better than about any other model Ive ever made. 

[Bill Cross]

Gents, THERE IS NO QUESTION HIS STUFF IS EXCEPTIONALLY DETAILED.

 

When I opened the Danny Corman book to the section on the cockpit, there were NO ADDITIONS NEEDED.

 

But that doesn't change the fact the tub didn't come close to fitting the Italeri kit.

 

I frankly would purchase a better-fitting 'pit even if it wasn't as detailed. I can add cables and other stuff. I still don't know whether this thing is going to work (and after I dragged the base kit all over Asia and Australia).

Edited November 8, 2018 by Bill Cross