F-102A Delta Dagger help

[Chek]

Hi members,

 

It's not in the home team's scale, but it's the best available currently. For no apparent or good reason, I've developed a hankering for the Convair family of deltas - probably since I've been unable to locate my Monogram B-58 that I KNOW I possess but can't actually lay hands on. But that aside, I'm currently examining a wrecked Monogram Dagger with Case XX wing model and comparing it to my unbuilt Dagger with the Case X wing with a view to building one and restoring the the other.

 

One thing I've noticed is that the radome has a noticeable droop towards the tip that none of the plans I've located depict correctly, and to compound the problem, no photos of the several hundred I've collected show the area with either enough clarity, or enough secondary information to scale up a working drawing or at least modify a commercial plan to suit.

 

So if anyone can recommend a good accurate scale plan, or happens to have good, clear nose profile photos at a healthy resolution I could sure put them to good use.

 

Having recently acquired the Revell release of the Mirage IIIE in 1/32 scale, I idly compared a 1/48 scale Kfir with the Dagger for size and I'm not altogether surprised there have been no big scale versions of the Dagger or Dart. Ejection seats aside, even the 1/48 Dagger makes the same scale Kfir model look like it's really only 1/72 scale.

 

 

[edfifer]

The Encore boxing of Monogram's F-102 comes with a resin nose which is supposed to be closer to the correct shape. I can't vouch for its accuracy, but it is a little bit different and not merely a resin recast of the kit part. I realize you've already got a couple F-102s and might not want to buy yet another kit just for a single part. 

[Chek]

48 minutes ago, Jennings Heilig said:

To my eye, Monogram absolutely nailed the shape of the Deuce in their kit.  Hard to believe it’s been out for almost 30 years!

 

The Deuce is indeed a superb kit, along with many others that Monogram released in a series during that 70s era, only falling off their horse (figuratively speaking) with their half-arsed attempt to rework the Aurora (I think) F-111.

 

That aside, here's what I'm seeing. Admittedly it's subtle, but I'm convinced it's there. I've added some dreaded red lines as an aid. I think it may be on the underside too, but

the blend is far smoother.

F-102A 56-1052 FC-052 318 FIS nose profile (photo via Marty Isham).

 

Incidentally Jennings I have your quite excellent F-106 Delta Dart stencils sheet, but the Fündecal Deuce's set is only available in 1/72 scale.  As there are a few minor stencils

around the fin that are missing from the otherwise very good Revell Wisconsin ANG sheet. If you could confirm that the Fündecal 1/72 sheet's stencils are legible,

I'll go with them in the absence of a dedicated 1/48 set.

 

[Chek]

Hi Edfifer, thanks for your response and kind implied offer but you're quite right, I don't really need another kit.

 

I wonder though if you'd kind enough to measure the height (or length, but height might be easier) as I've read it corrects the too long Monogram radome.

And it's be great to know how much the 'too long' is.

 

It, along with it's Dart sibling, would really make a mighty beast in 1/32 scale, and covers a period of USAF history that for colourful schemes rivals the Navy of the mid-60s to 70s.

[edfifer]

I just dug out my Encore kit and eyeballed the shape of their resin nose in profile alongside the Monogram plastic part. To me, the resin nose shape does look much closer to your photo than does the plastic part.

[edfifer]

I don't have a micrometer, but I measured the height of both parts pretty carefully with a combination square on a flat surface. The resin part is about 1/16 inch shorter. If you're willing to accept the Encore resin piece as "correct," I suggest cutting that length off the tip of the plastic part and then filing/sanding to reduce the diameter of the new tip and induce the very subtle kink extending about 1/4 inch back from the new tip. 

[Chek]

Thanks for taking the trouble to let me know, your observations are very welcome Ed. The Encore builds I've seen online would lead me to believe their radome part is indeed a correction and enhancement to the kit. They certainly still command a premium price when available.

 

Cheers for the history correction, Jennings. I acquired mine about five or six years ago, but in style and execution it seems very much part of the Century series jets including the Phantom (when designated F-110) that I fondly consider a golden age for the Morton Grove era company

Edited October 28, 2018 by Chek
speeling

[edfifer]

For whatever reason, this photo appears to have uploaded upside-down, but hopefully it will still be helpful. The shorter nose is the Encore resin part, and the longer one is the Monogram part. There are 14 vertical lines to the inch. I propped the parts up with clay to keep them as square to the surface as possible.

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1O1BwIMe22W2Azy0VXNIg6VH-uzYg4sK3

 

[Chek]

Thanks Ed. The lined paper was a nice touch, very helpful.

[edfifer]

Actually, you're looking at the two parts sitting on my laptop screen (tips propped up with a tine bit of clay underneath). The grid pattern is courtesy of Microsoft Excel. You're looking at the them in left-side profile, upside down. Glad it helps.

[quang]

One of the peculiarities of the 102 radome is that while perfectly conical, it consists in 2 different cones joined at the tip. To my knowledge, the only manufacturer who got this right is Meng with their 1/72 offering (photo below)

 

 

@Chek, upon reading your thread, I took my Monogram F-102 from its 20 -year old retirement and discovered with stupor that I have already started the correction of the radome. Not nearly there but you get the idea.

 

Cheers,

Quang

[LSP_K2]

The '102 does indeed seem to have a somewhat tapering conical shape, albeit symmetrical, at the extreme nose end. 

 

[Finn]

There is a fuselage stations diagram in this manual:

 

http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/en/aircraft/usa/convair/f-102deltadagger/f-102a-flight-training-manual.html

 

Jari

[Chek]

4 hours ago, quang said:

One of the peculiarities of the 102 radome is that while perfectly conical, it consists in 2 different cones joined at the tip. To my knowledge, the only manufacturer who got this right is Meng with their 1/72 offering (photo below)

 

 

@Chek, upon reading your thread, I took my Monogram F-102 from its 20 -year old retirement and discovered with stupor that I have already started the correction of the radome. Not nearly there but you get the idea.

Cheers,

Quang

 

Nice photos Quang. The Meng radome does look pretty close. With your ongoing modding work on the nose I'm thinking that rather than a vertical cut, the base of the tip cone should be angled back with the lower edge aft of the upper one. Just from looking at your photo, I'd think the Master pitot which has the slightly flared base seen in Kevin's previous photo with the lovely Barbara Lang. If aligned to the lower edge and the upper curve sanded down to meet it, I'd say you've got it.

 

While on the subject of that Barbara Lang photo op - one of a series of her promo (that's PROMO for you speed readers) visit to the 327th FIS at George AFB in 1957. 

 

 

She's admiring the 327th's 1956 speed record holder. Among other items of note are the almost sideways flipped nose gear door which we're more used to seeing hanging vertically, the lack of intake ramps are seen more clearly in the photo below, along with the shorter vertical tail and smaller airbrakes behind the fin fitted to the first sixty six F-102As. The flamboyant paint scheme and commander's stripes around the fuselage make for the kind of colourful aircraft from a bygone age we're unlikely to see again.

 

photo by Marty Isham via Bert Kinzey's Colour and Markings title.

 

[Lee White]

23 hours ago, Chek said:

Hi Edfifer, thanks for your response and kind implied offer but you're quite right, I don't really need another kit.

 

I wonder though if you'd kind enough to measure the height (or length, but height might be easier) as I've read it corrects the too long Monogram radome.

And it's be great to know how much the 'too long' is.

 

It, along with it's Dart sibling, would really make a mighty beast in 1/32 scale, and covers a period of USAF history that for colourful schemes rivals the Navy of the mid-60s to 70s.

 

 FWIW, Combat does both a Deuce and a Six in 1/32. The Six is a remarkably good kit, not nearly as rough as some of the later Combat offerings.