LSP_Ray Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 It is the aircraft vs armor thing. Armor builders expect (and typically get) raised details including rivets and bolt detail where appropriate. Aircraft builders used to get raised details until they all complained they wanted recessed detail as raised panel lines weren't correct and it was too hard to replace sanded off detail. Now, aircraft builders are starting to want to go back to raised detail where appropriate. But it is slow in coming. Even Tamiya's new models don't have raised rivets - but their tanks do! Harold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 10 hours ago, LSP_Ray said: Even Tamiya's new models don't have raised rivets - but their tanks do! Err... I'm building Tamiya's Corsair and I can assure it that it does have raised rivets - where appropriate. Aircraft typically have flush-rivets and Tamiya does a wonderful job of replicating them as well. Helo's on other hand are covered with raised rivets. I'm fairly certain that if Tamiya ever did a helo, they would accurately depict all rivets instead of opting for an "artistic representation" of them as KH has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 14 hours ago, thierry laurent said: I do not even think they are making that to cut corners or save money as the CAD work is the same and adding holes in a mold is always far easier than the opposite! Then that's even more egregious, since they could have apparently easily molded these accurately but instead went with an "artistic" approach to replicating these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Williams Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 The problem with raised rivets (and other raised details) is when they are on a surface that isn’t flat to the mold, and that prevents the mold halves from separating cleanly. On something like a Blackhawk fuselage half, the rivets on the sides aren’t a problem, it’s when they wrap around the top and bottom. About the only way to make it work is a multi-part slide mold or building up from multiple pieces, both of which are more expensive, and raise the issue of seam or mold lines to deal with in amongst the detail. For armor kits, most riveted tanks have flat sides and are built of multiple flat pieces, so molding raised rivets aren’t a problem. CATCplSlade, scvrobeson, zerosystem and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringleheim Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 So now the rivet counters are complaining about the appearance of the rivets as well!? Raised! Recessed! Flush! Both in different places! I say if you like Blackhawk helicopters and want a huge one in 1/35 scale, buy this kit, build it, and enjoy it. Regardless of what the rivets look like! panzerrob, Harold, CATCplSlade and 6 others 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CATCplSlade Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 I have a feeling that if too many people ignore this release, there may not be another for a long time. Why invest the energy into something people didn't buy the first time? Harold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1 Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 hour ago, ringleheim said: So now the rivet counters are complaining about the appearance of the rivets as well!? Err.... no... not complaining about the appearance of rivets, there are none. Not a rivet counter either, you kinda need some rivets to count to qualify for that lofty title, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 There are a lot of varying opinions out there on what should be on a kit, I have my own, but I have a feeling I'd probably change my opinion on it if I had to factor in profitability and a business cost/reward to account for. CATCplSlade and Harold 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfighter Posted October 15, 2018 Share Posted October 15, 2018 On 10/12/2018 at 4:16 PM, CATCplSlade said: Nobody - I repeat nobody - makes a perfect replica of any aircraft or vehicle. You always have to compromise somewhere when reducing the scale of a real object. Well, thanks - I repeat thanks - for explaining my job to me. What would I do without you? Of course developing a model includes loads of compromises but what counts is the appearance of the model which has to depict the real thing as closely as possible. This includes the surface detail. Of course it helps to deliberately misunderstand or misinterpret a post if no other arguments are available. Removing a part with raised rivets from a mould causes the same - or at least very similar - issues as removing a part with recessed rivets. Somebody has obviously taken the bad decision to provide recessed rivets instead of correct surface detail, so be it. There are obviously enough people who are happy with whatever kit manufacturers provide, so we'll have to live with it anyway. John1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Ray Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 Guys, let's keep it civil. I hid a couple of posts that were really going down the personal attack rabbit hole. The debate of recessed vs. raised rivets and details has been going on for years and we have seen kits both ways and different modelers prefer each method. It really depends on how you paint and weather a model. The best way to show a company which you prefer is with your wallet. Harold, Pete Fleischmann, Fooesboy and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfighter Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 For those asking why this kit should have raised rivet details... here you go! Tomcatfreak, thierry laurent, Anthony in NZ and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark31 Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 then we know what to do buy a big load off rivets and spend hours off fun to put them in place But that would not stop me for buying this kit and all the versions Looking forward to the relaese Mark Harold and Pete Fleischmann 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierry laurent Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Well, very frankly I would not care if there was a way to paint recessed rivets in a way that look like the Seahawk real ones. However, this is simply impossible! Look at that picture. It really looks like a black wash was used with some drybrush of a lighter grey on the rivet heads. If there is a way to replicate that with recessed rivets, I am interested in knowing it. As Mark just wrote the only solution asks for filling everything and add new rivets! Frustrating when you know that the CAD work is not more complicated and it is easier and generally cheaper to create a mold with raised rivets than recessed ones. So, I have yet to understand why this trend is generalized... So, indeed, personally, I would prefer a 1/32 Seahawk with raised rivets or to say it differently a kit that may look like the full scale airframe and be put on a scale deck close to a 1/32 plane. Unfortunately, it looks like we will get a 1/35 one (for commonality with the "Army" scale) with recessed rivets... In the end this is a Seahawk and when released I will get it as there is no other option. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 14 minutes ago, mark31 said: then we know what to do buy a big load off rivets and spend hours off fun to put them in place But that would not stop me for buying this kit and all the versions Looking forward to the relaese Mark Exactly. https://www.archertransfers.com/SurfaceDetailsAircraft.html Out2gtcha and mark31 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scvrobeson Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 Well, that's an awesome picture of a Seahawk. So much weathering potential Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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