Jump to content
Gazzas

LF period ventral views of 109s with oil stains

Recommended Posts

One rule of thumb, if you didn't already know: Exhaust stains for German aircraft were always black or very dark brown-black due to their low quality fuel.

US and British stains are typically much lighter in color, tans and browns, as they used higher quality, and I think higher octane fuel. And it seems all WWII aircraft trailed quite a bit of oil, especially the radials which really threw it out. Even the Collingsworth B-17, which no doubt sees a lot of maintenance, had good sized puddles under some of the radials after flight ( I actually overheard a couple of Collingsworth staff looking at the puddle under one engine and comment how it might be time for another overhaul).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Martinnfb said:

Also, I would like to point at the difference in the shape and coverage of the exhaust staines, a detail that is given by the asymmetry of the airframe and airflow and very often neglected.

WTF-103.jpgWTF-25.jpg

 

You sir, are a font of useful information.  I had never noticed this.  Thank you.

 

I know that in many cases, the Luftwaffe ground crews wiped the exhaust stains off fighters.  But I can't be certain it was universal.  For instance, Barkhorn's machines are all pretty clean in photos.  It would be interesting to see some pictures of this bird closely after capture before it was used as a squadron hack. 

 

Gaz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Martinnfb

here ,  Bf 109G2Trop black 14 Metz WNr 10605 Zarzis Tunisia Mar 1943-01Messerschmitt-Bf-109G2Trop-2.(H)14-Red-1Messerschmitt-Bf-109G2Trop-2.(H)14-Red-1Messerschmitt-Bf-109G2Trop-2.(H)14-Red-1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 8/11/2018 at 2:26 PM, LSP_Ray said:

One rule of thumb, if you didn't already know: Exhaust stains for German aircraft were always black or very dark brown-black due to their low quality fuel.

 

The really dark heavy stainage on LW fighters was due to the use of nitrous oxide injection

that started 'during' the war. Notice not such heavy stains on early a/c like Es. I read some

where that LW pilots didn't like to use it unless absolutely necessary as it left a long plume

of black smoke behind them , easy to spot from a distance.

 

WTF-25.jpg

 

Notice the (allied) bee art is painted 'over' the stainage.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, ringleheim said:

Spent 15 minutes wandering around the 'net looking for a nice belly shot.  They are hard to find!

 

 

This is very true.  I've gone through some 109 albums out there and not found much else of use. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 8/11/2018 at 3:26 PM, LSP_Ray said:

One rule of thumb, if you didn't already know: Exhaust stains for German aircraft were always black or very dark brown-black due to their low quality fuel.

US and British stains are typically much lighter in color, tans and browns, as they used higher quality, and I think higher octane fuel. And it seems all WWII aircraft trailed quite a bit of oil, especially the radials which really threw it out. Even the Collingsworth B-17, which no doubt sees a lot of maintenance, had good sized puddles under some of the radials after flight ( I actually overheard a couple of Collingsworth staff looking at the puddle under one engine and comment how it might be time for another overhaul).

 

Rule of thumb with a radial from an old aviation tech... If is isn't leaking oil, DON'T fly it ! Radials leak oil as a matter of course. On the Trackers we not only had chin trays on them on the tarmac  but also drip pans under them in the hanger... parking area's on the tarmac were black under the engine locations due to oil leaks.

Edited by spacewolf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like air-cooled Volkswagens; there's no way you aren't going to have drip from the oil drain plug or the valve covers unless you just never put any in in the first place. And even then, oil spontaneously generates within the sump.

 

On a related note: I recently picked up Tamiya's 1/35 Kubelwagen repair set which is basically a guy doing a tune-up so now I have an oil-changing diorama to do once I get another Type 82. Having spent a lot of time staring at the back (and bottom) of a 1600 dual port, I think I can off something pretty cool.

 

But like with the planes, you don't find many good pics because few people thought to take pics of the dirty bottoms. I don't think the Germans spent a lot of time crawling on their backs compiling reference pics on oil stains, as I don't see many people on their backs at vintage auto show'n'shines looking for seepage around the CV boots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jari,

   Those are excellent pics.  Look at the oil staining around that access cover.

 

Hah...and I just noticed the first-aid hatch has been put on upside down.

 

Very cool!

 

Gaz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 8/13/2018 at 12:17 AM, MikeMaben said:

 

 

The really dark heavy stainage on LW fighters was due to the use of nitrous oxide injection

that started 'during' the war.

 

Without checking, I guess that the mechanism that stuffed Nitrous into the engine also shoved in a generous dose of fuel for it to burn. From memory, it isn't that uncommon to overfuel to protect the pistons. Otherwise the excess oxygen from the Nitro (which is why you injected it) would burn up the pistons instead

 

Interesting stuff

 

Richard

 

MORE: Stuff on GM-1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM-1

Edited by RLWP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/13/2018 at 1:17 AM, MikeMaben said:

 

 

The really dark heavy stainage on LW fighters was due to the use of nitrous oxide injection

that started 'during' the war. Notice not such heavy stains on early a/c like Es. I read some

where that LW pilots didn't like to use it unless absolutely necessary as it left a long plume

of black smoke behind them , easy to spot from a distance.

 

WTF-25.jpg

 

Notice the (allied) bee art is painted 'over' the stainage.

 

I am not sure that was case. The GM-1 was rare after all. Only the high altitude variants was so equipped, and only by conversion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×