LF period ventral views of 109s with oil stains

[ringleheim]

Spent 15 minutes wandering around the 'net looking for a nice belly shot.  They are hard to find!

 

 

[MikeMaben]

 

On 8/11/2018 at 2:26 PM, LSP_Ray said:

One rule of thumb, if you didn't already know: Exhaust stains for German aircraft were always black or very dark brown-black due to their low quality fuel.

 

The really dark heavy stainage on LW fighters was due to the use of nitrous oxide injection

that started 'during' the war. Notice not such heavy stains on early a/c like Es. I read some

where that LW pilots didn't like to use it unless absolutely necessary as it left a long plume

of black smoke behind them , easy to spot from a distance.

 

 

Notice the (allied) bee art is painted 'over' the stainage.

 

[Gazzas]

23 hours ago, ringleheim said:

Spent 15 minutes wandering around the 'net looking for a nice belly shot.  They are hard to find!

 

 

This is very true.  I've gone through some 109 albums out there and not found much else of use. 

[Rick Griewski]

Thanks

 

Rick

 

[Finn]

Not a belly view but one getting a wing put back on:

 

 

 

 

Jari
 

[LSP_Ron]

I've never seen those pics before. Looks like either a wing going on or coming off.

[spacewolf]

On 8/11/2018 at 3:26 PM, LSP_Ray said:

One rule of thumb, if you didn't already know: Exhaust stains for German aircraft were always black or very dark brown-black due to their low quality fuel.

US and British stains are typically much lighter in color, tans and browns, as they used higher quality, and I think higher octane fuel. And it seems all WWII aircraft trailed quite a bit of oil, especially the radials which really threw it out. Even the Collingsworth B-17, which no doubt sees a lot of maintenance, had good sized puddles under some of the radials after flight ( I actually overheard a couple of Collingsworth staff looking at the puddle under one engine and comment how it might be time for another overhaul).

 

Rule of thumb with a radial from an old aviation tech... If is isn't leaking oil, DON'T fly it ! Radials leak oil as a matter of course. On the Trackers we not only had chin trays on them on the tarmac  but also drip pans under them in the hanger... parking area's on the tarmac were black under the engine locations due to oil leaks.

Edited August 14, 2018 by spacewolf

[CATCplSlade]

Like air-cooled Volkswagens; there's no way you aren't going to have drip from the oil drain plug or the valve covers unless you just never put any in in the first place. And even then, oil spontaneously generates within the sump.

 

On a related note: I recently picked up Tamiya's 1/35 Kubelwagen repair set which is basically a guy doing a tune-up so now I have an oil-changing diorama to do once I get another Type 82. Having spent a lot of time staring at the back (and bottom) of a 1600 dual port, I think I can off something pretty cool.

 

But like with the planes, you don't find many good pics because few people thought to take pics of the dirty bottoms. I don't think the Germans spent a lot of time crawling on their backs compiling reference pics on oil stains, as I don't see many people on their backs at vintage auto show'n'shines looking for seepage around the CV boots.

[Gazzas]

Jari,

   Those are excellent pics.  Look at the oil staining around that access cover.

 

Hah...and I just noticed the first-aid hatch has been put on upside down.

 

Very cool!

 

Gaz

[RLWP]

On 8/13/2018 at 12:17 AM, MikeMaben said:

 

 

The really dark heavy stainage on LW fighters was due to the use of nitrous oxide injection

that started 'during' the war.

 

Without checking, I guess that the mechanism that stuffed Nitrous into the engine also shoved in a generous dose of fuel for it to burn. From memory, it isn't that uncommon to overfuel to protect the pistons. Otherwise the excess oxygen from the Nitro (which is why you injected it) would burn up the pistons instead

 

Interesting stuff

 

Richard

 

MORE: Stuff on GM-1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM-1

Edited August 15, 2018 by RLWP

[Hardcore]

On 8/13/2018 at 1:17 AM, MikeMaben said:

 

 

The really dark heavy stainage on LW fighters was due to the use of nitrous oxide injection

that started 'during' the war. Notice not such heavy stains on early a/c like Es. I read some

where that LW pilots didn't like to use it unless absolutely necessary as it left a long plume

of black smoke behind them , easy to spot from a distance.

 

 

Notice the (allied) bee art is painted 'over' the stainage.

 

I am not sure that was case. The GM-1 was rare after all. Only the high altitude variants was so equipped, and only by conversion. 

[Warbird]

Hi,

 

Thousands of photos here, you should find what you need...

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/albums

[MikeMaben]

13 hours ago, Hardcore said:

I am not sure that was case. The GM-1 was rare after all. Only the high altitude variants was so equipped, and only by conversion. 

 

I don't think it was all that rare but I'm could have been thinking of MW-50 ,

same function but for lower altitudes. I do remember reading about the

heavy black exhaust they produced. (unless I dreampt it in a dream  )

 

 

[Gazzas]

9 hours ago, Warbird said:

Hi,

 

Thousands of photos here, you should find what you need...

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/albums

 

I love that site.  Spent many, many hours looking at late-mark 109'S.  Can't think of any underside shots, though.

 

Gaz

[Hardcore]

15 hours ago, MikeMaben said:

 

I don't think it was all that rare but I'm could have been thinking of MW-50 ,

same function but for lower altitudes. I do remember reading about the

heavy black exhaust they produced. (unless I dreampt it in a dream  )

 

 

I know that feeling. Wish my sources were more informative about stuff like that.

Dirty exhaust is what I associate with suboptimal combustion, or impurities in the fuel. Does Nox or MW50 count? Hard to think Water and alcohol would add anything but steam.