1/32 385th BG(H) B-17G - Fictitious

[Guest]

I think they look great!......Harv

[Gazzas]

beautiful detail work!

 

Gaz

[aircommando130]

Looking really good! Gun belts are very realistic!

[brahman104]

You're going great guns on this one David! For never having done any wood replicating before I'd say you've absolutely nailed it! Those ejector pin marks in the kit are really quite horrible to deal with, but you've done a great job of hiding them....

 

The belts look spot on too..... some very neat painting there! I'd like to help you with your instruction dilemma but threw mine away (obviously  ) and am using the brassin engines from Eduard. Hopefully someone should be able to point you in the right direction, perhaps have a chat to Tom Probert? He's more or less one of the experts around here regarding dealing with the HK kit

 

Cheers,

 

Craig

[Geddyme]

Greetings all, and speaking of guns, Craig...

 

I have been working on the cheek guns for the most part this weekend. I have the MK1 Detail Up kit I noted at the beginning of this thread, and it has the 13 guns barrels/jackets/rear sights for this kit. There are 7 -28mm barrels and 6 -23 mm barrels. Unfortunately these do not match the variety of lengths with the kit parts, AND given the instructions (Step 67) are less than helpful in placing the kit barrels, for instance, there is no place for the barrels labeled P5 so I will have to rely on photos and any information I can find in the builds here to place my AM pieces correctly.

 

At any rate, I started by priming, (MM enamel, Neutral Grey) the brass and letting that dry overnight. In the morning I used MM Flat Black -Acrylic on the kit's gun bodies themselves, those dried quickly so I dry brushed with MM Steel -Acrylic until I achieved the desired effect. by then the brass had dried so I did the barrel jackets in MM Flat Black, then the barrels and sights in MM Steel, both acrylic, again, some more dry brushing for the jackets.

 

Now here's my beef with the aftermarket MK parts, the longer jackets needed reamed out a bit, even prior to priming/painting, to get the barrels through, I accomplished this gently with my utility knife blade, didn't take much. The 6 shorter barrel jackets I felt were a bit too long for the look I wanted, 1 mm of the barrel protruding, so I filed these to get the desired length/effect and then a quick dab of the Flat Black on the filed end.

 

The 13 barrels, the second and third from the left in the foreground I've dry brushed with MM Steel already, I'm not sure I like the look yet, may give them a bit more. And I have a small bit of work remaining at the business end of the barrels. There were no flash hiders and such like in the AM I bought, which hasn't endured itself to me so far. I'm probably going with Eduard in future builds as I see a lot of folks here like them.

 

 

Here you can see the AM rear sights, and the completed gun bodies for the cheek positions with one photo showing the barrels dry fit, if a tad askew, into position. At this point I am not sure if these are the correct barrels for this position, but I will be investigating. All that's left for these pieces is a bit of grey wash, Vallejo Grey, 76.516.

 

 

 

Until next time, and thanks for looking!

 

R/S, David

[NukerDan]

I guess I didn't know there were different barrel lengths on the .50 cal M2. Everything I can remember reading said that the barrel length was 36 inches. I'll be interested to know which lengths were at which gun position. 

[Geddyme]

15 hours ago, NukerDan said:

I guess I didn't know there were different barrel lengths on the .50 cal M2. Everything I can remember reading said that the barrel length was 36 inches. I'll be interested to know which lengths were at which gun position. 

 

I walked around "Aluminum Overcast" back in mid-May and they all appeared to be of similar length, if not the same... her chin .50's have flash hiders but the barrels looked the same as all the others.

 

I saw the Belle a couple weeks ago and hers gun barrels appear similar as well. Granted I did not measure either bird.

 

The kit has varying length barrels as well, perhaps the overall gun length will be the same once assembled? As some of the kit's machine gun bodies also vary in length. I clearly have some investigation to do before I place the barrels. Both the AM instructions and the kit instructions are less than helpful in this regard, to my mind. I won't be deterred! : )

 

More to come!

 

R/S  David

[NukerDan]

9 hours ago, Geddyme said:

 

I walked around "Aluminum Overcast" back in mid-May and they all appeared to be of similar length, if not the same... her chin .50's have flash hiders but the barrels looked the same as all the others.

 

I saw the Belle a couple weeks ago and hers gun barrels appear similar as well. Granted I did not measure either bird.

 

The kit has varying length barrels as well, perhaps the overall gun length will be the same once assembled? As some of the kit's machine gun bodies also vary in length. I clearly have some investigation to do before I place the barrels. Both the AM instructions and the kit instructions are less than helpful in this regard, to my mind. I won't be deterred! : )

 

More to come!

 

R/S  David

In the book "Aerial Armament in WWII: Vol I, Guns, Ammunition and Turrets" it states the gun was 57 inches long with a barrel length of 36 inches. I've seen these same measurements elsewhere as well, but can't remember where right off hand. 

It's been awhile since I walked around Aluminum Overcast, I missed our local airshow last time around. 

[Geddyme]

On 7/16/2018 at 9:27 PM, NukerDan said:

In the book "Aerial Armament in WWII: Vol I, Guns, Ammunition and Turrets" it states the gun was 57 inches long with a barrel length of 36 inches. I've seen these same measurements elsewhere as well, but can't remember where right off hand. 

It's been awhile since I walked around Aluminum Overcast, I missed our local airshow last time around. 

 

I definitely believe you... I have time to research and decide where the barrels will go. The kit instructions seem to be OK for installing the guns themselves, it's basically guess work with the MK barrels.. I'm leaning this way at the moment after comparing with kit barrels;

7 @ 28mm - 2/chin _ 2/tail _  2/waist _ 1/radio

 

6 @ 23mm - 2/top _ 2/ball _ 2/cheek

 

Might swap waist and cheek...

 

Back to finishing the nose interior tonight, hopefully...

 

Cheers!

David

[NukerDan]

I wonder if the different barrel lengths in the kit are due to how they attach at their appropriate locations? Maybe they all would appear the same length once installed? If that were the case, one would think they'd have specified it in the instructions. 

Either way, whatever you decide will look great I'm sure! 

[Out2gtcha]

Same thing happened to me and my B-25. Seems Profi-modeller had a set of B-25 .50 cal barrels and when I got them they were all sorts of crazy different lengths, with seemingly no rhyme or reason, and none really matching the OOB kit parts. I sold the set, and ended up buying 7 set of Master Model .50 cal barrels. 

 

Looking great so far BTW!

[HobbyZoneUSA]

21 hours ago, Geddyme said:

Back to finishing the nose interior tonight, hopefully...

 

Cheers!

David

 

David, keep in mind that you have a great deal of 'poetic license' in and around the B-17. We learned some interesting tid-bits when we started the restoration of the B-17G 'I'll Be Around' in the early 1980s for the 390th Memorial at the Pima Air Museum. Each B-17 was essentially hand-made. While the subassemblies like landing gear struts, engines, mounts, control yokes, guns, etc., were all interchangeable between aircraft, each airframe was hand-built. You couldn't take an airframe panel off of one aircraft and put it on another - none of the rivet holes will line up. The B-24 was the first production line/mass-production aircraft that came close to parts swapping. It was even worse for aircraft produced at different factories. While we were stripping paint off of our Lockheed/Vega-built airframe, another B-17G arrived through Davis-Monthan AFB to be stored temporarity at Pima for the Smithsonian. We watched as the ceremony concluded and everyone left, then we ran over to the new bird and tried to liberate some spare parts. This new arrival had come off the Boeing line, and the radio compartment overhead hatch that I 'acquired' wouldn't even come close to fitting in our aircraft. Ditto on other airframe parts that my colleagues attempted. We put them all back.

The point of this is that there are various detail differences between production blocks off of the same factory line, much less between different factories (Boeing, Douglas, Lockheed/Vega). They may all say B-17G, but that's where the similarities diverge. The ammo racks in the rear may be correct for the aircraft that was researched, but it is okay to change that up for your bird. One detail I don't see in any of the kits is the parachute stowage in the nose. As you point out, there is little room in there for the nav and bombadier and that crawlway is barely large enough for a skinny human. You can't go into or out of the nose compartment with a parachute on your back or butt. The bombardier and nav had tethers on their harnesses that they would latch onto the nearest parachute, two (or three) kept in the nose, and several others around the rest of the aircraft. I think the tail gunner had a similar arrangement.

Oh yes, the .50 cals all had the same barrel length so they would all have the same ballistic performance when fired. The housings would differ whether they were remote-fired or man-fired, single or twin-mount, etc., but the barrels were the same length. On installations where the barrels could be changed out (like on a tank), they had a handle under the barrel, but since you can't change barrels in-flight (with a few exceptions), the handles were left off. The flash suppressors could be added on the ends when available and needed.

[Sgt Shultz II]

To clear things up on the bomb rack here is a picture of the shackle alone and one attached to a bomb. The shackles are hooked to the rack using the hooks on the outer sides. The bomb is then hoisted up and hooked onto the shackle. I think the pictures pretty much explain themselves, the arms on the top fit into the slots on the actuator bolted to the rack. The fuses are installed after the bombs are hung.

 

[Geddyme]

Hello folks... I've just returned from vacation in San Diego, and quite motivated to continue this build. A brief update this morning, will be followed by a more in depth post for later today, on the most recent progress in the nose, I'm nearly there.

 

I haven't quite buttoned up the nose yet, the last bits (unless I see something else I like before this evening... lol ), are a map (or two) for the navi, and cable system for the cheek guns.

 

I'm also debating, after reading a post here (Tom Probert's "Sentimental Journey" after resto, if I recall correctly?), joining the fuselage halves to the nose halves, rather than the nose halves together first, and then installing to the joined fuselage, as the instructions recommend. I'll do some test fitting first though.

 

THANK YOU for all your comments and suggestions, while I was away, I will endeavor to respond to those tonight as well, very much appreciated as always!

 

Until later,

David

[Geddyme]

On 7/19/2018 at 9:58 AM, NukerDan said:

I wonder if the different barrel lengths in the kit are due to how they attach at their appropriate locations? Maybe they all would appear the same length once installed? If that were the case, one would think they'd have specified it in the instructions.

 

I am wondering the same thing NukerDan. The kit's gun bodies for the turrets (top, chin, & ball) appear noticeably shorter than the others. The longer barrels might be better here...but there are 7, so the extra would have to go in the radio room since it has just the one MG (or none at all). As you said, it should look good either way.

 

On 7/19/2018 at 10:03 AM, Out2gtcha said:

Same thing happened to me and my B-25. Seems Profi-modeller had a set of B-25 .50 cal barrels and when I got them they were all sorts of crazy different lengths, with seemingly no rhyme or reason, and none really matching the OOB kit parts. I sold the set, and ended up buying 7 set of Master Model .50 cal barrels. 

 

Looking great so far BTW!

 

Brian, same with MK's B-17 set... no rhyme or reason at first glance, instruction indicate how to assemble barrels, which is pretty obvious I thought... nothing about which go where though. I haven't really dug much deeper on where they best fit, but I will  before installing. I will make them work, but will check out Master Models for future projects, thanks for the tip and the encouragement!

 

On 7/19/2018 at 11:19 AM, HobbyZoneUSA said:

 

David, keep in mind that you have a great deal of 'poetic license' in and around the B-17. We learned some interesting tid-bits when we started the restoration of the B-17G 'I'll Be Around' in the early 1980s for the 390th Memorial at the Pima Air Museum. Each B-17 was essentially hand-made. ....

 

Thank you for all that information, I will keep it all in mind. To illustrate your point;  when my brother and I were kids building models, at one point we had about 24, 72nd scale B-17s, all flying in formation hanging from our ceiling. My dad had been in many B-17's during & after the war & would back you up on the differences from one Fort to the next. He wouldn't buy us a new model if we didn't promise to make it look as different front the previous as much as 10-12 year olds could. Before leaving the service he was at Walnut Ridge, bringing bombers "home to die". It was the worst job he ever had in the USAAC, he would say, idle time was spent watching the planes he loved being scrapped, or in rare cases, sold. Thanks again!

 

On 7/19/2018 at 5:47 PM, MARU5137 said:

David.

 

Super NEAT work. 

 

 

Thank you sir! Much appreciated!

I'm learning quite a bit as I go, especially concerning the dedication of the modelers here, to our hobby.

 

On 7/22/2018 at 4:20 AM, Sgt Shultz II said:

To clear things up on the bomb rack here is a picture of the shackle alone and one attached to a bomb. The shackles are hooked to the rack using the hooks on the outer sides. The bomb is then hoisted up and hooked onto the shackle. I think the pictures pretty much explain themselves, the arms on the top fit into the slots on the actuator bolted to the rack. The fuses are installed after the bombs are hung.

 

 

Thanks for the information Sgt! Now I want to make those shackles, next build though... I've got the bombs in now on this project.

 

Update coming tonight I hope!

 

Regards,

David