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As with all things B-24, the question of the "high-hat" turret and the A-3D turret just keeps getting more complicated. 

 

And now to the facts.

 

The A-3D has long been labeled such due to the "high hat".  In researching "Consolidated Mess" (see Chapter 2) I found that some 800 A-3Ds were produced with the older dome turret. It is only recently that I've found documents explaining that. It turns out the A-3D designation was the result of a change in the oxygen system, NOT because of the new high hat. The high hat was developed to get rid of the distortion caused by the blown plexiglas of the earlier turret configuration. It was a fortuitous accident that it also happened to offer the perfect setup for the new lead-computing sight that came along a bit later. 

 

So, you have a confluence of changes that resulted in what most have labeled - incorrectly - the A-3D top turret as shown above. When I get around to adding all the new information to what will be an eventual "reprint" of "Mess, Vol. 1", all this and more will be revealed. I hope to have a surprise announcement regarding "1" in the next couple of weeks. 

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

Alan Griffith

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As a die hard jet guy, WWII stuff doesn't interest me very much at all. However, a 32nd Liberator is just so cool that it transcends my preferred subject matter. I just might have to pop for one of these! Which one though??? A J model, or Ploiesti raider?? I never thought I'd see a big scale Liberator! How about a Marauder HB?? Fred K.

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I'm thinking a lot of us are now saying "be careful of what you wish for" as a result of this.  So we, as a collective keep wishing for that done right "B", and sooner or later it's going to appear.  Got to!  It's like the Holy Grail to a lot of us.  Call me crazy.  Yea, maybe. [grin]

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 Fisher Patterns ?  only hope

Wouldn't it be nice if Fisher did a PB4Y-2 conversion for the monogram kit.  That would make a lot of people happy.  I'm having pre-buyers remorse on that 41 inch wing span job.  Just don't have the room, amd not keen on wall hangers.

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Tail_gunner_aboard_US_Ferry_Command_C-87

 

I consider myself reasonably well versed in the Liberator but this tailgun config is strange to me. Can someone she'd a little light on this setup? It was in the movie Unbroken and it bothered me there too.

Nope, it's accurate--for 5th Air Force Liberators that went out to the Central Pacific.

 

They removed the tail and ball turrets for weight reasons.  The tail turret conversion has been well documented, but the ball turret, which was "replaced by a Scarff mounting" I've never seen.  I'm assuming it was a ring with guns firing down through the opening, sort of like the WWI mount but with the guns firing down and through the mounting, with some sort of shallow plexiglass dish set up.

 

There's a picture of one here.

 

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads/alternate-b-24-belly-turret.34925/

 

TimW

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Okay....another opportunity to set the record straight.

 

First, the aircraft tail gun pictured above is NOT accurate for standard 5AF tail guns. It is a very early B-24, possibly even an LB-30 or a C-87 and in the U.S. This is immediately evident by the fact that it is a single .50 caliber. The 5AF retained the tail turret but had the ball turret removed. This is quickly recognized by the windows above the ball turret position as shown by the photos in the ww2 aircraft link. Those aircraft do NOT have ball turrets, but have been fitted with the twin hand-held .50 caliber guns. Any slight curvature you might see on the bottom of the aircraft was due to a plexiglas cover that was put over the opening,  They are also J-COs. The immediate recognition feature of the Consolidated nose-turreted aircraft is the square-ish upper rear corner on the bombardier position side glass. 

 

The 7AF retained the ball turret but replaced the tail turret with a series of TWIN .50 caliber tail guns. Some were hydraulically-assisted, many were hand-powered. I have no record whatsoever of any single .50 caliber guns in 7AF B-24 tails, although I do have a photo that smacks of a 20mm field mount. 

 

You will on rare occasion find a Hawaii Air Depot mod (HAD Mod) B-24 that has received BOTH the 5AF AND the 7AF mods. I'm pretty sure this was a screw-up at the mod center. I have several photos of one such aircraft in "Mess 1".

 

I would be extremely careful about using that ww2 link and its "information". A great deal of it is wrong. I went into a detailed explanation of all these theater/AF armament variations in "Consolidated Mess, Vol. 1", with many photos and drawings.  I will do the same with the glassnoses in Vol. 2. 

 

In the process of my researching Vol. 2 I have been going through pretty much every B-24 file and folder at the National Archives and have gathered a huge amount of data both for Vol. 2 and an eventual update of Vol. 1. I'm still not quite sure how to present the new information on the seemingly-endless armament experiments and suggested projects - up to and including mounting 75mm guns and larger in various positions. Research is a "*****" if done correctly, but it is exquisitely revealing. The first part of that statement is probably why so few authors really ever bother to do serious research.

 

If there are any questions about B-24 armament or configurations, please post them and I'll do my best to answer. I can't quite make out the serial number or the nose art for the box art on the upcoming "J" kit, so I'm not sure if it is configured correctly or not. If they had a copy of my book it SHOULD be right, but.....

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

Alan Griffith

 

PS It is entirely conceivable that there were field mods early on initial B-24s in the Pacific featuring single .50 cal guns, but I've never seen a photo or read a report on one. I retain my serious doubts.

Edited by acresearcher
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