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TimHepplestone

Revel Heinkel He 111 h6

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So was thinking of backdated Revells 1/32 Heinkel He 111 H6 to a Batlle of Britain H4 version. I see the kit contains the sprues with the bomb bay from their P version, so that's no problem. Have ordered some decals for the H3 / H4 version so my cunning plan is looking quite viable. Any Heineken experts out there that could advise me on other changes I'll need to make. . I know there were some differences in mg armament but am struggling to find references. Many thanks in advance

Tim.

 

P.s. I meant Heinkel experts not Heineken. That's auto correct for you, though know doubt Heineken experts could also give valuable advise

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I'm not sure if it's the best kit - have the P kit with the CMK H-1/2/3 conversion - as the H-6 kit's props and spinners aren't applicable to anything earlier than a H-5.

 

Though I might be wrong!

 

From the Kagero book   http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/He-111/Heinkel-He-111/pages/Artwork-line-drawing-or-blue-print-of-a-Heinkel-He-111H5-scale-1-72-Arkusz-01.html

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There is currently no gondola in any kit for a H-4

 

“He111 Variants

P-1

- 8 x SC250 internal bomb bay

- solid ventral gondola front

P-2

- 8 x SC250 internal bomb bay

- solid ventral gondola front

- new radio: FuG IIIaU then later FuG X

- P-2 onward mounted 2 MG15 at the waist and a fifth crewman

-

P-3

- dual control trainer

P-4

- external PVC 1006 bomb racks, or 1 external and 1 internal

- glazed ventral gondola front + MG

- dorsal gondola w folding close down section on some models

- added 3 Mg15s

- sometimes had either or both the forward facing MG15s replaced with 20mm MGFF

H-1

- internal SC250 bomb bay

- Jumo 211A engine

- early engine cowling: lower and smaller oil cooler intake on top of the engine nacelle and a shorter supercharger intake which does not run the length of the cowling above the exhausts

- solid ventral gondola front

H-2

- internal SC250 bomb bay

- solid ventral gondola front

- later engine cowl

H-3

- internal SC250 bomb bay; sometimes combo

- ventral gondola: some solid, some glazed + MG

- had the 5 MG15 and one MG17 fit of the P-4

- the two extra 15s were waist mounted

- some had a second A-stand mounted MG15 mounted above the nose gun

- sometimes had either or both the forward facing MG15s replaced with 20mm MGFF

- tail cone MG on some models

H-4

- external PVC 1006 bomb racks; sometimes combo

- glazed front ventral gondola + MG / MGFF

- dorsal gondola w folding close down section on some models

- sometimes had either or both the forward facing MG15s replaced with 20mm MGFF

- some had a second A-stand (front gondola) mounted MG15 mounted above the nose gun

- tail cone MG on some models

H-5

- revised ventral gondola shape

- external PVC 1006 racks or combo with ETC2000 bomb rack (ETC port, PVC starboard)

- dorsal gondola w folding close down section on some models

- tail cone MG on some models

H-6

- H-6 early: VDM props, pointy spinners

- H-6 late: VS11 props, fat spinners

- revised ventral gondola shape

- external PVC 1006 racks or combo with ETC1000 bomb rack (ETC port, PVC starboard)

- later models just 2 ETC2000 racks

- dorsal gondola w folding close down section on some models

- tail cone MG on some models

 

 

Build notes:

P-1: per P box

P-2: per P box

P-4: PVC racks per H boxing but need new ventral gondola / dorsal gondola cover (no current aftermarket exists)

H-1: spinner and props, ventral gondola from P box + CMK conversion

H-2: spinner and props, ventral gondola from P box (early only - late needs new ventral gondola)

H-3: spinner and props, ventral gondola from P box (early only - late needs new ventral gondola; no current aftermarket exists)

H-4: spinner and props from P box but need new ventral gondola (no current aftermarket exists)

H-5: as for H-4

H-6: per H boxâ€

 

Copyright me

:)

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Ah! Very helpful info there. I'm looking at doing a H-2, so provided it's an early one, then it's doable. 

 

Trouble is, is that the photos of the aircraft I will be portraying show it bellied in a field, so the gondola is a tad flattened!

 

Best regards;

Steve

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Bellied where?

If in England it'll be covered in Luftwaffe Crash Archive books - a super valuable resource

They may detail the number of guns carried / which stations etc

 

Basically it's super difficult to accurately model BoB / shortly after 111s - Revell just gave us the wrong kits!

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I've got the Luftwaffe Crash Archive series on the shelf....I'll have a look and let you know. It's He 111 H-2 A1 + AI of KG53. Crash landed at Great Wakering on August 24th 1940.

 

Best regards;

Steve

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If it's a H-2 that wasn't upgraded then you might be in business, but you will need the P kit ventral gondola and different engine cowls

 

When I get back home I'll check my database of potential 111 projects (I'm a bit geeky like that)

 

I actually found only a handful possible to model where one actually knew / could see the ventral gondola config, aircraft codes, geschwader decals were available etc etc

 

Maybe this a/c is on there or maybe I missed one and we both win?

 

HTH

Nick

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Thanks Nick! I'll do a bit of digging myself today. My plan was to try and do a few builds of Luftwaffe a/c that crashed locally to where I used to live....especially being friends with people that remember the actual events. As far as the H-2 is concerned, I have thought it possible that it may have been upgraded being that it was shot down in late August....we'll see!

 

Here's a link to a small article. There are a couple of other photos of this aircraft available;

 

http://barlingwakeringvillages.co.uk/heritage/The%20Day%20The%20Luftwaffe%20Dropped%20In%20For%20Tea%20by%20Gordon%20Wiseman.pdf

 

I have both the P and H kits. I was hoping to use both kits to make a BoB 111 and the rest of the H to do a Casa 2.111 conversion.

 

Best regards;

Steve

Edited by fightersweep

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Thanks to all for the info. Some really knowledgeable people out there!! Will need to do some head scratching on this one , ventral gondola issue seems to be the major issue. Maybe I should do a belly landed crash diorama 😅

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If it was upgraded you cannot make it - unless you are a quite confident scratch-builder

 

The Crash Archive book *may* tell you by virtue of the guns that were recovered

 

If only 3 then you're in luck

 

If it's more than that it means that it almost certainly had the ventral gondola upgrade which is in neither the P nor the H I'm afraid

 

PS geeky He111 side fact: in the film Dunkirk, someone obviously went to the trouble of simulating the sound of the MGFF that is firing back at Tom Hardy - very different to the normal, much smaller calibre MG. only problem is that they didn't have them fitted at that time!

They should have asked some modellers!! Lol

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Hi Nick;

 

Well, had a glimpse at the Crash Archive book, and the intelligence report from the day states that there were seven MGs found on the aircraft (including one Thompson sub machine gun!! So I'm guessing this H-2 had the upgrade, I'm happy to scratchbuild....I just can't find enough decent photos or plans to illustrate the diffferences between the different types of gondola....well good enough to have a go at scratching one!

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ok so that definitely had the updated gondola

it would have had 1 in nose cone, 1 extra in window glazing just above nose cone, 2 in waist positions, 1 in dorsal 'B stand', and 2 in ventral = 7

:)

 

get the Kagero Monografie books  - vol 1 or 2 will do as they both have the same plans in i think

 

that will tell you what you need to do

 

basically it's a P shape, but they cut some windows in it

 

i would post pics but since photbucket debacle...well, you know the deal

 

now how you do that in plastic is beyond me

 

good luck - i like your local driven project

my 'local' has a He111 prop blade hanging on the wall - crashed just down the road in Frittenden, Kent and one of the old regulars even remembers it coming down!

 

all the best

 

Nick

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There is currently no gondola in any kit for a H-4

“He111 Variants

P-1

- 8 x SC250 internal bomb bay

- solid ventral gondola front

P-2

- 8 x SC250 internal bomb bay

- solid ventral gondola front

- new radio: FuG IIIaU then later FuG X

- P-2 onward mounted 2 MG15 at the waist and a fifth crewman

-

P-3

- dual control trainer

P-4

- external PVC 1006 bomb racks, or 1 external and 1 internal

- glazed ventral gondola front + MG

- dorsal gondola w folding close down section on some models

- added 3 Mg15s

- sometimes had either or both the forward facing MG15s replaced with 20mm MGFF

H-1

- internal SC250 bomb bay

- Jumo 211A engine

- early engine cowling: lower and smaller oil cooler intake on top of the engine nacelle and a shorter supercharger intake which does not run the length of the cowling above the exhausts

- solid ventral gondola front

H-2

- internal SC250 bomb bay

- solid ventral gondola front

- later engine cowl

H-3

- internal SC250 bomb bay; sometimes combo

- ventral gondola: some solid, some glazed + MG

- had the 5 MG15 and one MG17 fit of the P-4

- the two extra 15s were waist mounted

- some had a second A-stand mounted MG15 mounted above the nose gun

- sometimes had either or both the forward facing MG15s replaced with 20mm MGFF

- tail cone MG on some models

H-4

- external PVC 1006 bomb racks; sometimes combo

- glazed front ventral gondola + MG / MGFF

- dorsal gondola w folding close down section on some models

- sometimes had either or both the forward facing MG15s replaced with 20mm MGFF

- some had a second A-stand (front gondola) mounted MG15 mounted above the nose gun

- tail cone MG on some models

H-5

- revised ventral gondola shape

- external PVC 1006 racks or combo with ETC2000 bomb rack (ETC port, PVC starboard)

- dorsal gondola w folding close down section on some models

- tail cone MG on some models

H-6

- H-6 early: VDM props, pointy spinners

- H-6 late: VS11 props, fat spinners

- revised ventral gondola shape

- external PVC 1006 racks or combo with ETC1000 bomb rack (ETC port, PVC starboard)

- later models just 2 ETC2000 racks

- dorsal gondola w folding close down section on some models

- tail cone MG on some models

Build notes:

P-1: per P box

P-2: per P box

P-4: PVC racks per H boxing but need new ventral gondola / dorsal gondola cover (no current aftermarket exists)

H-1: spinner and props, ventral gondola from P box + CMK conversion

H-2: spinner and props, ventral gondola from P box (early only - late needs new ventral gondola)

H-3: spinner and props, ventral gondola from P box (early only - late needs new ventral gondola; no current aftermarket exists)

H-4: spinner and props from P box but need new ventral gondola (no current aftermarket exists)

H-5: as for H-4

H-6: per H boxâ€

Copyright me

:)

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There is currently no gondola in any kit for a H-4

“He111 Variants

P-1

- 8 x SC250 internal bomb bay

- solid ventral gondola front

P-2

- 8 x SC250 internal bomb bay

- solid ventral gondola front

- new radio: FuG IIIaU then later FuG X

- P-2 onward mounted 2 MG15 at the waist and a fifth crewman

-

P-3

- dual control trainer

P-4

- external PVC 1006 bomb racks, or 1 external and 1 internal

- glazed ventral gondola front + MG

- dorsal gondola w folding close down section on some models

- added 3 Mg15s

- sometimes had either or both the forward facing MG15s replaced with 20mm MGFF

H-1

- internal SC250 bomb bay

- Jumo 211A engine

- early engine cowling: lower and smaller oil cooler intake on top of the engine nacelle and a shorter supercharger intake which does not run the length of the cowling above the exhausts

- solid ventral gondola front

H-2

- internal SC250 bomb bay

- solid ventral gondola front

- later engine cowl

H-3

- internal SC250 bomb bay; sometimes combo

- ventral gondola: some solid, some glazed + MG

- had the 5 MG15 and one MG17 fit of the P-4

- the two extra 15s were waist mounted

- some had a second A-stand mounted MG15 mounted above the nose gun

- sometimes had either or both the forward facing MG15s replaced with 20mm MGFF

- tail cone MG on some models

H-4

- external PVC 1006 bomb racks; sometimes combo

- glazed front ventral gondola + MG / MGFF

- dorsal gondola w folding close down section on some models

- sometimes had either or both the forward facing MG15s replaced with 20mm MGFF

- some had a second A-stand (front gondola) mounted MG15 mounted above the nose gun

- tail cone MG on some models

H-5

- revised ventral gondola shape

- external PVC 1006 racks or combo with ETC2000 bomb rack (ETC port, PVC starboard)

- dorsal gondola w folding close down section on some models

- tail cone MG on some models

H-6

- H-6 early: VDM props, pointy spinners

- H-6 late: VS11 props, fat spinners

- revised ventral gondola shape

- external PVC 1006 racks or combo with ETC1000 bomb rack (ETC port, PVC starboard)

- later models just 2 ETC2000 racks

- dorsal gondola w folding close down section on some models

- tail cone MG on some models

Build notes:

P-1: per P box

P-2: per P box

P-4: PVC racks per H boxing but need new ventral gondola / dorsal gondola cover (no current aftermarket exists)

H-1: spinner and props, ventral gondola from P box + CMK conversion

H-2: spinner and props, ventral gondola from P box (early only - late needs new ventral gondola)

H-3: spinner and props, ventral gondola from P box (early only - late needs new ventral gondola; no current aftermarket exists)

H-4: spinner and props from P box but need new ventral gondola (no current aftermarket exists)

H-5: as for H-4

H-6: per H boxâ€

Copyright me

:)

Thanks for the detailed reply. Got me really scratching my head about the ventral gondola issue. Unfortunately the book you mentioned is not available here in South Africa. I do have some plans of an H5 gondola which does not look terribly different to the parts on the sprue. But a cannot for the life of me find a picture or plan of the H4 gondola. If anyone has a picture I'd really appreciate it.

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