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TorbenD

Aerotech Supermarine S5

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Seatbelts- not exactly definitive but in the Schneider cockpit scenes from First of the Few, David Niven does not appear to be wearing any shoulder straps!

 

You can find the film on YouTube; relevant scene is around 39 minutes.

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When looking at references of the cockpit area the double rows rivets for the ribs are clearly visible and closely match he scale spacing I've done internally 

 

 

 

My question is about these in relation the the rear bulkhead of the cockpit. I'd expect to see a vertical line of rivets line up with the rear edge, or may be just slightly behind to take into account the thickness of the seat rear cushion and headrest so that this bulkhead would be fitted directly against a rib. From this image (although) not 100% side on the rib looks like it's set back a good 6 inch +. The best plans I have (see last post) have these cushions resting up against the rear bulkhead. 

 

From what the external rivet lines are indicating the only possible conclusions I can glean is that:

1. Either the bulkhead is not fitted completely flush with the cockpit surround but set back to the near rearmost row of rivets and the the headrest (and seat rear cushion?) is deep enough to just show slightly in front of the cockpit surround.

2. The rear bulkhead is somehow fixed to the same rearmost rib but in such a way that it's not riveted to the fuselage skin and set forward so it is flush with the cockpit opening.

 

From all the images/videos I can see point 2 is the most likely as I can only see what appears to be flush fitted bulkhead in the headrest area - it that case I'm surprised it has no external riveting in line. Any thoughts, ideas, insights most welcome.

 

Torben

 

Hi Torben,

 

Super work as always.

 

About the seat, is it possible the seat is supported on a frame that projects forward of the bulkhead (like a spitfire)? To allow the seat to be raised for take off?

Lots of images on Google showing the Spitfire seat frame!

 

Malc.

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The "seat" was minimal in nature, nothinh more than two planks ... No real need for lateral support, the very narrow fuselage provided this without problems :).

 

Having looked at pics of the S6B, I would believe that the headrest was suspended to the frame marked by the rivet line, protruding forward of this "line". I am not even sure (quite sure of the contratry in fact) that there was anything like a bulkhead at the level of this frame. Just the headrest, and the back of the seat ...

 

As for the belts, again a conjecture, but I'd support the lap-belt idea.

 

Hubert

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Thx again for looking in and commenting Juraj, Kev and Gaz... in for for a penny, in for a pound...

 

 

Hi Torben,

 

Super work as always.

 

About the seat, is it possible the seat is supported on a frame that projects forward of the bulkhead (like a spitfire)? To allow the seat to be raised for take off?

Lots of images on Google showing the Spitfire seat frame!

 

Malc.

 

The "seat" was minimal in nature, nothinh more than two planks ... No real need for lateral support, the very narrow fuselage provided this without problems :).

 

Having looked at pics of the S6B, I would believe that the headrest was suspended to the frame marked by the rivet line, protruding forward of this "line". I am not even sure (quite sure of the contratry in fact) that there was anything like a bulkhead at the level of this frame. Just the headrest, and the back of the seat ...

 

As for the belts, again a conjecture, but I'd support the lap-belt idea.

 

Hubert

 

Thanks Malc and Hubert (again) - Malc, the hi-res version of those plans you sent me last night have helped clarify a number of details especially with the cockpit - thanks again, really helpful.

 

Hubert is spot on in that there was no seat, just the aforementioned planks with a (Chesterfield sofa style) leather back rest and matching headrest. From the videos I've also worked out that there were was look like shoulder cushions/padding loosely attached to the rear of cockpit wall sides - the S6 cockpit photo a couple of posts back also seem to show this.

 

What I hadn't realised :doh: until you pointed it out Hubert (after Malc's prompting) is that there is probably no solid bulkhead behind the back rest as modelled in the kit (maybe a small one behind the headrest) but the backrest is likely to be attached to the next set of ribs back, possibly set forward off some horizontal frames like the Spitfire without any of the redundant height adjustment hinging. At least I assume that's what you mean Hubert?  :hmmm:

 

Hmmm What to do...? Whilst the back rest covers much of the area knowing me and all the effort gone on so far I'm going to see if I can address this somehow. 

 

Cheers again,

Torben

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Seatbelts- not exactly definitive but in the Schneider cockpit scenes from First of the Few, David Niven does not appear to be wearing any shoulder strap

 

Had a quick peak Jumpjack - it's the icing on the cake,  :piliot:  lap belts it is  :)

 

Torben

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Hmmm What to do...

 

Ignore it, forget it, carry on blindly, stick your fingers in your ears and go la-la-la-la-la

 

This the proper course of action, no-one will ever know

 

Of course, I know you are going to chop out the bulkhead somehow

 

Richard

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Ignore it, forget it, carry on blindly, stick your fingers in your ears and go la-la-la-la-la

 

This the proper course of action, no-one will ever know

 

Of course, I know you are going to chop out the bulkhead somehow

 

Richard

 

Am I that transparent?  :ninja:

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Thx again for looking in and commenting Juraj, Kev and Gaz... in for for a penny, in for a pound...

 

 

 

 

Thanks Malc and Hubert (again) - Malc, the hi-res version of those plans you sent me last night have helped clarify a number of details especially with the cockpit - thanks again, really helpful.

 

Hubert is spot on in that there was no seat, just the aforementioned planks with a (Chesterfield sofa style) leather back rest and matching headrest. From the videos I've also worked out that there were was look like shoulder cushions/padding loosely attached to the rear of cockpit wall sides - the S6 cockpit photo a couple of posts back also seem to show this.

 

What I hadn't realised :doh: until you pointed it out Hubert (after Malc's prompting) is that there is probably no solid bulkhead behind the back rest as modelled in the kit (maybe a small one behind the headrest) but the backrest is likely to be attached to the next set of ribs back, possibly set forward off some horizontal frames like the Spitfire without any of the redundant height adjustment hinging. At least I assume that's what you mean Hubert?  :hmmm:

 

Hmmm What to do...? Whilst the back rest covers much of the area knowing me and all the effort gone on so far I'm going to see if I can address this somehow. 

 

Cheers again,

Torben

 

Yes, exactly ... :)

 

Hubert

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Hi Torben,

I also think there is no bulkhead behind the back rest, as it seems by looking at the drawings (they are in an Aircraft Archive book I have). For the seat belts, my first opinion was no shoulder belts, but the black and white photo of the S6 in the previous page clearly shows them. The strange thing about the seat is impression that the pilot is sitting directly on the cockpit floor! 

 

Alain

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Hi Torben,

I also think there is no bulkhead behind the back rest, as it seems by looking at the drawings (they are in an Aircraft Archive book I have). For the seat belts, my first opinion was no shoulder belts, but the black and white photo of the S6 in the previous page clearly shows them. The strange thing about the seat is impression that the pilot is sitting directly on the cockpit floor! 

 

Alain

 

Thanks Alain - I'm definitely going with just lap belts and no bulkhead now... Shame I'd just stuck in all the ribbing before realising  :BANGHEAD2:  That said, the belts around the joystick in that S6 ref do look a bit like the heavy eyelets one gets on the shoulder straps a Sutton Harness  :hmmm:  

 

Regarding the seat.... ain't no padding accept what nature provided... talk about flying by the seat of your pants!

 

Torben

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Greetings all,

 

It's a case of one step back and a tentative couple forward...

 

As just mentioned before the error of my ways regarding the distinct lack of bulkhead behind the seat backrest cushion had been highlighted I'd just stuck the previously made ribbing sections on so this made the extension somewhat more tricky.

 

First up to mark up the minimum extra I'd need to remove in order to show this off but at the same time not so deep that it became a pointless exercise as not much will be visible beyond the first one or two ribs behind the backrest once everything is in shadow. By this point the sidewalls of the cockpit were becoming dangerously thin so I also attached some thick plastic card to where the radiator panel inserts are which once the fuselage is permanently joined will be sanded right back to the correct profile as I intend to add much slimmer, scratchbuilt  radiator ribs once it}s all fared in.

 

 

DSC02641-X3.jpg

 

DSC02640-X2.jpg

 

Fortunately I hadn't yet added the ribbing to the floor so this was a bit easier to mark and then carve out. The only issue being that I had already glued in a thin section of 10thou for the main section which I didn't want to damage.

 

DSC02636-X2.jpg

 

Some time (and a lot of profanity) later... Voila!

 

DSC02649-X2.jpg

 

DSC02651-X2.jpg

 

DSC02652-X2.jpg

 

DSC02654-X2.jpg

 

DSC02655-X2.jpg

 

Phew!! I think.... Hmm... In an ideal world I would have a perfectly flowing, visually smooth curving line flowing between the ribs above and below the spar-line on the section join, it kinda kinks visually at the most side-on viewing angles, especially towards the rear so I need to sleep on that as from most angles the match up and visual flow is good.

 

DSC02661-X2.jpg

 

 

 

 

The only fix would be to redo the base section completely and adjust the curve so it has more vertical sides...  :hmmm:

 

Oh I forgot to mention I had to tweak the relative position of the top and base halves of the cockpit before doing all of the above so that the rear of the cockpit moved back about 2mm. The model has this lining up with the trailing edge of the wing where as photos and some plans show it set back a short way.

 

DSC02653-X2.jpg

 

Thanks for looking,

 

Torben

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