Another Hasegawa T bolt Bubbletop, my first LSP. November 12, 2022, It is DONE at last!!!!!!!!

[Citadelgrad]

Thanks, Jay!  I noticed in a few photos that were Juuuust the right angle, there are slots and rollers.  Not sure I could replicate in 1/32 in that small space, but you sure nailed it in your big Jug.  I will ponder how I might do something similar. 

[Citadelgrad]

I changed gears a bit tonight.  After all that hard work on the engine and the cockpit, and still unsure of how to handle the intercooler doors, and hesitant to close up the fuselage, i took a look at my landing gear options.   I of course have the kit legs, but i also found a set of SAC white metal legs that i must have ordered at some point, and i am not sure which way to go as of right now.  One thing i am certain of, though, a real disappointment with the kit tires.  With all the amazing detail Hasegawa packed into this kit, the main gear tires look like inner tubes with faint impressions of what might be tread. 
 

in the words of every upperclassman who ever was unhappy with my performance, these are a “no go” on this exercise. 
 

 

this is Gabreskis bird, lord willing and the creek dont rise, and photos of his plane show a block tread pattern with flat covers on the wheels.  I could not find the exact block pattern shown in the photos, but these are close

 

 

Resin wheels are no doubt old hat for many, but for me, this is all new, and i cant be the only one.  They come attached to a casting block, and must be cut off.  Leave some of the nub so you can sand flush with the detail without losing any 

these come with nice spokes,

but Gabreski’s bird had these plain covers

a little thin, so be careful removing these.  Then just sand back to the line of the cover. 
 

a few minutes of careful sanding, and they are ready for paint

 

 

one with the cover, one showing all that detail that no one will ever see.

 

here is what the other side looks like, nice detail i think

 

i will make a decision on the gear selection, but will probably paint both sets and see what they look like.   This is only a Minor update, and i didnt really model, scratch, or paint, or even assemble anything, but its a WIP thread, and this is what happened tonight.

 

any tips on which way to go with the actual gear legs is always welcome. 

[bdthoresen]

CG-

 

DON’T use the SAC gear legs. Their white metal is extremely soft, and tends to bend easily over time. A P-47 I built for someone a few years ago had a set installed, and the had bowed on the shelf within two years under the weight of the model.
 

Furthermore, they were nothing but a direct knock-off of the kit parts anyway, so there is no real gain in detail. I would use the kit struts, Barracuda wheels, and add some brake lines from lead wire. Clean up the scissor links, add some cable clamps for the brake line and you’re away. It will look good under paint. 

 

THOR    

[JayW]

3 hours ago, bdthoresen said:

DON’T use the SAC gear legs. Their white metal is extremely soft, and tends to bend easily over time. A P-47 I built for someone a few years ago had a set installed, and the had bowed on the shelf within two years under the weight of the model.

 

I agree 100%.  I did a Rutman resin 1/32 P-47 years ago, a huge chore, and it came with white metal gear struts.  They sagged just like Thor said.  I am unsure if different grades of metal are used such that some are more resistant to sagging.  But I would not chance it.

 

I wonder if anybody out there makes a brass set....

 

If you are going to do an aircraft that clearly has period photos with the covers on, I'd go with the covers.  However, the P-47 uncovered wheels do look pretty damned sexy.  Your choice. 

 

Once time to attach the landing gear to the wings, do not commit the egregious sin of orienting them too upright, I command you!  I have seen too many otherwise wonderful P-47 builds, with overly upright gear, as if the poor aircraft ran into something and bent them backwards!  Ruins the whole look.  Study the pictures carefully.  Also, the bottom edge of the lower gear door was designed to be parallel with the ground.  That is a very good indicator of proper gear rake.  If it helps (I studied the heck out of this for the 1/18 build), LG strut rake angle to horizontal relative to the airplane fuselage is right at 12 deg from perpendicular, raked forward.  This will give a strut angle to the ground line of about 66 deg (can vary a bit due to oleo extension of either the main gear or tail gear).          

[mhorina]

Hey, Jay I would recommend Damian's Synthetic Ordance here on LSP for his landing gear legs for your 47. Check him out.

 Mike Horina

Edited March 27, 2021 by mhorina

[Out2gtcha]

2nd vote for Damian's wares!

 

You get the realistic look of real metal eleos, and the strength of hardened steel inside. Cant beat em IMHO.....

 

Plus, SOW has a really kick-a$$ logo too!!

[Jeff T]

4 hours ago, JayW said:

 

 

Once time to attach the landing gear to the wings, do not commit the egregious sin of orienting them too upright, I command you!  I have seen too many otherwise wonderful P-47 builds, with overly upright gear, as if the poor aircraft ran into something and bent them backwards!  Ruins the whole look.  Study the pictures carefully.  Also, the bottom edge of the lower gear door was designed to be parallel with the ground.  That is a very good indicator of proper gear rake.  If it helps (I studied the heck out of this for the 1/18 build), LG strut rake angle to horizontal relative to the airplane fuselage is right at 12 deg from perpendicular, raked forward.  This will give a strut angle to the ground line of about 66 deg (can vary a bit due to oleo extension of either the main gear or tail gear).          

 

Great info Jay!....I'll take all that advice in when it comes time to attach the landing gear to my P-47 build.

 

Cheer's,

Jeff.

[Citadelgrad]

Im going to play with the kit legs for now.  Here are some photos of a P47 i recently got pretty close to at the Palm Springs air museum.  
 

in looking at other photos, this looks pretty representative.  It looks like, starting at the brakes and moving up, there is a loop of rubber brake line that is attached to the pivot point of the oleo scissor by a loop/clamp, and above that, there is a fitting that surrounds the entire gear leg and holds the fittings that transition from the rubber to a metal brake line.  I imagine it switches back to rubber at the gear pivot area.  I plan to use some lead wire for the rubber portion(s) and some stiffer, thinner wire for the metal portion.  I have some metal duct tape that is very thin, i will try that to simulate the around the leg clamps, does that seem like a way to go?

 

 

[bdthoresen]

9 minutes ago, Citadelgrad said:

Im going to play with the kit legs for now.  Here are some photos of a P47 i recently got pretty close to at the Palm Springs air museum.  
 

in looking at other photos, this looks pretty representative.  It looks like, starting at the brakes and moving up, there is a loop of rubber brake line that is attached to the pivot point of the oleo scissor by a loop/clamp, and above that, there is a fitting that surrounds the entire gear leg and holds the fittings that transition from the rubber to a metal brake line.  I imagine it switches back to rubber at the gear pivot area.  I plan to use some lead wire for the rubber portion(s) and some stiffer, thinner wire for the metal portion.  I have some metal duct tape that is very thin, i will try that to simulate the around the leg clamps, does that seem like a way to go?

 

 

That’s the way I’d go, and yes, the brake lines were flexible at the scissor link, and the gear pivot point, turning back into aluminum lines heading towards the cockpit. The photos you show appears the struts are a bit deflated of Nitrogen/5606. Make sure you have a bit more oleo showing than that! Your build is looking great!

 

THOR    

[Citadelgrad]

3 minutes ago, bdthoresen said:

That’s the way I’d go, and yes, the brake lines were flexible at the scissor link, and the gear pivot point, turning back into aluminum lines heading towards the cockpit. The photos you show appears the struts are a bit deflated of Nitrogen/5606. Make sure you have a bit more oleo showing than that! Your build is looking great!

 

THOR    

Thanks, Thor.  Yes, that plane i got close to looked TIRED.  They race it at Reno, but it looked pretty clapped out.   The tires were almost devoid of tread, and despite sporting invasion stripes, it was a weird color, and super glossy. I suppose that makes keeping it clean easier.  Must be tough to keep 70 year old flying examples in top condition. 
 

thank you for the kind words!

 

Bill

[Citadelgrad]

Those following this build are no doubt aware of my baby steps approach.  Im cutting my as an adult teeth on an LSP.  I am re learning old techniques and picking up new ones.  Tonight I cut the main gear legs from the sprues, and decided to make some progress in this department. Despite the overall excellent mold quality, there are two pretty apparent mold lines running the entire length of the legs, into and out of every nook and cranny.  There is a decent amount of detail molded in, its just that all the raised and lowered sections are marred by that seam line. So i went to work. I used my scalpel, sanding sticks, a tiny file.  I went from one to the other, and when i went back to the first one, saw all new areas i had missed.  I did this several times, and think i got everything i could reach. 
 

then a stared at them, for about an hour, planning and revising my plans to run brake lines. I decided that the cleanest way to accomplish this will be to paint the legs bare, then run the hard and rubber lines, with their assorted clamps and fittings, which i am still sorting out the best solutions in my head, then assemble the oleo scissors and delicate struts.  That way i can run simulated clamps around the legs without fear of snapping off these delicate parts. 
 

earlier today i went to a local well stocked hobby shop, after checking out the other local shop and coming up empty on what i needed. I am fortunate to have two really solid shops within a half hour of the house. At the second one i grabbed...gasp....a bottle of alclad aluminum, a first for me.  The last bare metal bird i did was a P38j in high school, and although the finish was very smooth, it looked like it was chrome plated, largely because i shot it with testors chrome silver.  I also grabbed some Tamya rubber, XF 85 if i recall correctly.  
 

Despite using up a lot of time tonight planning my brake line route, and stopping and starting to place some clamps before painting, i really wanted to shoot the alclad tonight so that i can work with the parts tomorrow.  So i got a late start at the airbrush, i think i hit the garage at about 1030 local.  I laid down some light grey primer on both the Barracudacast wheels/tires, and the main legs and oleo scissors.  So far so good.  Then i shot a couple coats of rubber to make sure i was warmed up for the black magic that is alclad. 
 

by now it was after 11, and i was unable to put it off any longer.  I shook that little bottle of aluminum, and poured it into the cup, and it sprayed like a dream.  I know its just a bare main gear leg, but i am really happy with the look of this product. Again, i know many here dont blink at an entire NMF bird, but this is new to me. 
 

photos:

nothing sexy here yet, just some pretty good rubber look for straight out of the bottle.  Anyone remember testors “hot rod primer”?  I thought that looked so much better than “flat black”.  
 

here are the legs

and a shot of the covers 

I will shoot the hubs on the wheels tomorrow, i picked up a great trick from my armor building days, i have a circle template that has a circle for any soze between many an inch and down to maybe pencil size.  Just find the one that matches, shoot the color, on to the next wheel.  I have some HGW stencils for the gear legs, i think.  And hopefully i can start to run the brake lines. 
 

stay tuned, and thanks for the kind comments and suggestions.  I am really learning a lot on this big old bird. 

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Citadelgrad

[JayW]

The wheel pictures (actual aircraft) are no doubt from a P-47N.  The eight-spoke pattern is a dead give away (the D-models had six-hole patterns).  It is very possible the N-models had many differences in their landing gear compared to D-model.  Not sure.  The best bubbletop D-model restorations I know of are Dottie Mae (Allied Fighters) and Tallahassee Lassie (Flying Heritage Collection).  Look around and you will find dozens of pics of these two for reference.  As I mention though, two obvious inaccuracies - the eight-spoke wheels, and the Hamilton Standard prop.  I can only guess that the proper parts were just not available. 

Edited March 28, 2021 by JayW

[JayW]

Bill, another thing to know about P-47 landing gear.  You no doubt have noticed the axles are not quite perpendicular to the struts.  In real life they are 3 degrees off.  So when attaching the gear, not only do you have to get the rake correct, you have to splay them outwards 3 degrees such that the wheels/tires are perpendicular to the ground (not the struts).  I see too many P-47 models where the modeler has taken great pains to get the struts perpendicular to the ground.  Don't do it!      

[Citadelgrad]

1 hour ago, JayW said:

Bill, another thing to know about P-47 landing gear.  You no doubt have noticed the axles are not quite perpendicular to the struts.  In real life they are 3 degrees off.  So when attaching the gear, not only do you have to get the rake correct, you have to splay them outwards 3 degrees such that the wheels/tires are perpendicular to the ground (not the struts).  I see too many P-47 models where the modeler has taken great pains to get the struts perpendicular to the ground.  Don't do it!      

Will do, Jay.  Thank you for sharing this kind of information.  I will look for some more reference photos, too.  

[Citadelgrad]

Brief update, more of a logistics matter than a build note.  I have been wondering how to do the various brake line connections, and connectors in general.  I have a couple excellent Waldron punch sets, but they create more of a chunky PE product when trying to,ske, for example, the transition fitting from the rubber brake hose to the aluminum tubing, right at the Oleo scissors.  
 

i did some digging in the how to tips and tricks subforum, and someone mentioned Hiroboy, a one stop auto modeling site. They have tons of metal and resin fittings for use in 1/24 cars, they seem perfect, although i am just looking at photos and trying to find actual dimentions is tough.  I think i can make them work, and i can definitely use this stuff for engine wiring and hoses. 
 

i ordered up a bunch and will wait on plumbing the brake lines to see what they look like the. They get here. 
 

here is the fitting i am talking about

its between the oleo scissor and the upper gear door arm, a 90 degree join for the rubber at the bottom and the metal tube above. 
 

heres what i hope i can use, they are supposed to be .8 mm

 

 

hopefully they dont look gigantic when they get here.  I also ordered a bunch of other connectors for use in adding details for engines, etc.