LSP_K2 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Now that I think about it, Black Box/Avionix did a really spectacular 'pit for the Hasegawa kit. I can't help but wonder if it could be made to fit into this kit. Luca 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Airfixer Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) Black Box/Avionix;: Pros: The BB set has the provisions to build both types of Northrop (standard/improved) seats. Cons: The BB set features the original instrument panel typical of a/c without RWR sytems. In terms of detailing, the KH plastic is pretty much on par with the Black Box/Avionix resin. Except for the seat options, the BB set holds no real advantage over the KH plastic. Verlinden F-5E Detail Set: Northrop Improved Seat original early F-5E in strument panel Cons: washy, in some areas rudimentary details. At the end of the day, you'd better go with the kit parts. (apart from that, you could use the Verlinden PE fret as body armour...really heavy stuff) Both sets were great assets to vastly improve the comparatively sparsely detailed baseline Hasegawa kit from 1979. Pitting the BB and Verlinden sets against the KH plastic, the latter representing state-of-the-art tooling, both sets can hardly stand the competition. The Verlinden set in particular is compeletely driven out of the field. Original instrument panel layout (Kittyhawk/Black Box/Verlinden): Modified/revised F-5E instrument panel typical of a/c with RWR systems installation: (not included in the kit) HTH Erik ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tweak List - Kittyhawk proposed marking options versus kit content/kit plastic: http://forum.largesc...66843&p=1031030 Edited April 22, 2018 by Airfixer David66, Menelaos, LSP_K2 and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luca Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) hey Airfixer, as always you rock! but how do we know if our F-5E must have the RWR i.p. mods or not? Edited April 22, 2018 by Luca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_K2 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Good information as usual, Erik, so thanks for that. Not having seen the kit yet, I had no idea the OOB 'pit was that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Airfixer Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) hey Airfixer, as always you rock! but how do we know if our F-5E must have the RWR i.p. mods or not? If it's going to be one of the proposed Kittyhawk marking options, feel free to browse my "tweak list". If it's going to be one of the AF serials (coded E1/E3) below, it should have the RWR fairings plus the corresponding instrument panel: Generally speaking, marking options are snapshots in time. Always (knife hand!!!!) try to find photographs of the aircraft you're planning to build, most ideally taken during the applicable timeframe in order to figure out which feature was installed. HTH Erik ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tweak List - Kittyhawk proposed marking options versus kit content/kit plastic: http://forum.largesc...66843&p=1031030 Edited April 22, 2018 by Airfixer Luca and David66 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Windshield rain removal system question: Examining many photos in preparation for my build of the Kittyhawk kit, I noticed that some, but not all, F-5E aircraft have a crescent shaped fairing just ahead of the windshield for a rain removal system. Best closeup photo I had is in Detail & Scale Vol.5, pg. 46. The AFV Club 1/48 kits include a part for this fairing, but it is not used on all markings options. This part is also in the ancient Hasegawa 1/32 kit, but not included in the Kittyhawk kit. My question is this: does anyone know what production blocks had this rain removal fairing? Or lacking photos of an aircraft clearing showing the front of the windscreen, what general guidance to follow for including (or not including) this fairing. My working hypothesis is that early production F-5E aircraft had this fairing and at some point in production history it was dropped. However, I have no idea if this is correct or, if so, when the fairing was dropped. Using the Hasegawa part as a pattern, I think I can carve a reasonable duplication of this part from plastic sheet. Unless the aftermarket guys beat me to it. Thanks in advance to anyone who can share their knowledge. David66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Airfixer Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) Good observation, Tom. You're right, the spray nozzle array is not included in the Kittyhawk kit. Rain Removal System - applicable F-5E AF serial numbers: (coded E/E-2) It seems the rain removal system was dropped subsequent to AF78-2447. HTH Erik Edited April 22, 2018 by Airfixer David66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Thank you Erik. You are truly a guru of F-5 lore. I hope all these questions haven't become an unwelcome burden. A follow-up clarification if I may: the table you included indicates rain removal system through group E-2 (AF76-1685), but your note says "...dropped subsequent to AF78-2447." Did you perhaps mean to type "... subsequent to AF76-1685"? Again........THANKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Airfixer Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 (edited) Chronologically, AF78-2447 was the final aircraft to field the Rain Removal System as a production feature. AF78-2447 = final aircraft (fiscal year 1978) built according to "code E" standard. AF76-1685 = final aircraft (FY1976) built according to "code E-2" standard. The aircraft codes (E/E-1/E-2/E-3) are used to pool aircraft from various serial number ranges with common key systems and key equipment, e.g. radar, optical sight, manoeuvre-flaps or auto-flaps, etc. HTH Erik ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tweak List - Kittyhawk proposed marking options versus kit content/kit plastic: http://forum.largesc...66843&p=1031030 Edited April 22, 2018 by Airfixer LSP_K2, Daniel Leduc and David66 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 Yes, this helps. I think I finally understand. A pool group can include aircraft out of chronological order. i.e. Feature changes on the production line don't always occur in serial number chronological order. ..... and, of course, feature changes as in-service modification is a whole 'nuther sealed metal container of annelids! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f5guy Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) Well my kit showed up the other day, and I finally had a chance to look it over. I picked it up on ebay from an outfit called dawn grocery store in China. The cost was $68.43 shipped and it got here in fine shape in 16 days. Not bad! Here's my thoughts after looking it over: The kit definitely represents a late build F-5E, but with a few minor tweaks it can easily be built as an early build jet. Thankfully they've included the early style round nose cone, or backdating would have been a bit harder. I am a bit surprised at the level of detail in the kit. Its quite nicely done, almost to the point of being "fiddley" in some spots. It looks like it should be a pretty straight forward build though. The level of detail in the cockpit is pretty decent, and I'm pleased that they've included a decal for the instrument panel to off set the fact that there is no dial detail. I'm sure that Eduard will do a color PE set for the kit for those who want to go to the next level. The big boo boo in the cockpit is that the instrument panels on the right side are backwards...... the back panels should be at the front, and the front at the back. There's not really an easy fix for that, except possibly the future aftermarket again, cut it off horizontally with a razor saw, and flip it around, or ignore it. Canopy detail is most welcome, and looks great. For a small jet, the F-5 has a very busy cockpit, and from looking through the instructions, to me it looks like KH did a pretty respectable job with it. The resin seated pilot is a nice touch too! Surface detail looks quite nice, and other than the goof with the AOA vane that SC pointed out, I didn't see any issues. Then there's the issue that several folks here brought up about the open gun doors, and latches..... I have no idea why they did this, but this is what we've got to work with. The latches are an easy enough fix with some super glue and sanding sticks, but the closed latches will have to be rescribed, which could be a little pain in the butt. Hopefully the fit of the doors to the fuselage is good. Perhaps some aftermarket closed resin gun doors from.....???? could be in our future. Others have mentioned the plates for the chaff/flare dispenser on the bottom left side of the fuselage, and left main gear door. Also, the fact that the forward RWR antenna's are molded as part of the fuselage, as opposed to being a separate piece. There's also a knob for mounting the rear RWR antenna on the exhaust section, all of which would need to come off for an early build jet. For me, not really a big deal, and easily fixed, but I do wonder what they were thinking. As for the "channel" under the forward part of the nose that had a number of folks excited (in a bad way), I find it to not even be an issue. Its molded right along a panel line, and after paint and a wash you won't even notice it. The canopy looks nice, but is for a later jet with the vent on the left side. It should be easy enough to backdate, but they really should have included both early and late canopies like AFV did in their wonderful 48th scale kits. One feature that I do like, and would like to see more of, is the way that the windscreen piece is molded as part of the upper fuselage, so there is no seam or alignment problems with the windscreen like with most kits. Of course you'll have to have all of your instrument panel combing details in place before gluing it on. I'm interested to see how this works out as I've never built a kit with this feature. One thing that I have not seen noted is that the larger nose gear door has a vent in it, which again, is for a late build E, and all F's. An earlier version E wouldn't have it, unless retrofitted. Then there's the issue of only the late style wing root LEXs being supplied as molded onto the wing, as opposed to being a separate piece like on the 48th AFV kits. Definitely an oversight on KH's part, but really not a huge problem. Erik did a great diagram several pages back in this thread on how to backdate it to an early "LEX-less" jet. Ten minutes with a razor saw, needle file, sanding sticks, and you're there. Another big oversight, at least for now, is the lack of a vertical tail without the extended strake, refueling probe, and updated MFD equipped instrument panel, as used by a number of countries. KH would be well advised to follow AFV's lead on this, and have a whole other sprue tooled up with these mods. That being said: on parts sprue C, there is a large opening one quarter the size of the entire sprue, and right next to the standard tail. Perhaps KH plans on issuing these mods on a later release? It would certainly be in their best interest, and give them another release to sell in the process. Another big issue for some modelers is that only the late style ejection seat/headrest is supplied. If you're planning on using the kits seat and decals, this would rule out all options expect the two VFC-13 adversaries, and the FAM (Mexico) jet. It possibly might work for the South Korean and Jordanian jets, depending on the time frame that the decals depict, but you'll want to check your references for those two. The other jets would have the early seat/headrest. Normally I would consider the issue of the Martin-Baker ejection seat used in Iranian Tigers as something for the aftermarket to contend with, BUT since KH DID supply an Iranian decal option, they could have at least provided the correct seat for it. So, overall first impressions? I like it! There's definitely several oversights, and a few "Huh's???", but take it from someone who has built five of the Hasegawa kits with Black Box cockpits, the KH is a big step forward, and now I won't have to spend months rescribing the damn thing! Plus they're doing an F, which for the life of me, I can never figure out why Hasegawa didn't do it.... Please keep in mind that everything that you've just read is my initial impression of the kit, and is my personal opinion. Others will no doubt have their own. Fred K. Edited April 23, 2018 by f5guy David66, SharkOwl, Darren Howie and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kikka Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 hello fellow tiger lovers! i have the birg bird on order and i am planning to do the 111's 106 . since i dont know anything about this plane even though i love it , the various pictures and informations are life saving ! considering how long it takes me to finish a plane if i ever finish it i am sure there will be new exhausts and IP released when i crack it open . by the way if anyone has some picture of it if they can send it to me via PM ? and when the WIP starts please engage full back seat mode on me ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menelaos Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) hello fellow tiger lovers! i have the birg bird on order and i am planning to do the 111's 106 . since i dont know anything about this plane even though i love it , the various pictures and informations are life saving ! considering how long it takes me to finish a plane if i ever finish it i am sure there will be new exhausts and IP released when i crack it open . by the way if anyone has some picture of it if they can send it to me via PM ? and when the WIP starts please engage full back seat mode on me ! The whole F-5 family was a milestone in aviation history. The Freedom Fighter (R/F-5A/B) was THE dogfighter of its time. Even in the later years that new generation electric jets like the F-16 come up into the skies the F-5 was able to winn against them. We have many witnesses in the HAF from dogfighting over the Aegean sea where HAF-F-5s have several times THK F-16s in their gun camera. With the propriate tactics and pilots skills that is possible. Edited April 23, 2018 by Menelaos David66 and Harold 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Maxim Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Good review and great points re what version you need to build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Airfixer Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Excellent summary, Fred! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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