Dealing with bad rivets and panel lines?

[ChuckT]

I'm wanting to get Trumpeters 32nd scale F100 kit but looking at the reviews, it seems cursed with deep panel lines and even worse rivets.

 

What's the best way to deal with these?

 

Fill the trenches and rivets in with liquid sprue, let cure fully, sand flush, then re scribe and re rivet, or is there a better way?

[LSP_K2]

I'm probably the wrong person to answer, as I like it just the way it is. If you intend to do all of what you suggest, many folks seem to just spray on multiple coats of Mister Surfacer, sand the daylights out of it, then go nuts with adding it all back.

[F`s are my favs]

Yes, there is an easier and indeed better way to make the panel lines more subtle. This is maybe a major issue for the models in this scale... I don't know. But it was the same thing with my F-15. I just filed some "trenches" with highly diluted mr surfacer 1200. Just one pass with the brush and let it dry to become good for sanding. Then sand and the panel line should still be there, but way more subtle and finer, because the surfacer reduces its volume when dried. Well, there is a chance to completely fill the panel line, so it all depends on how deep it is and how much diluted the surfacer is. I found the right combo and will take a couple of photos in a moment...

 

Another way is what I call texturising, when basically the miniature walls of the panel lines are sanded out partially, which reduces the depth and thickness of the panel lines.

 

While for the rivets, yeah, it's just going crazy with a needle or with the right riveter.

[thierry laurent]

Don't bother about the rivets on this kit. As far as you do not put a dark wash in them, they are not that noticeable, more particularly if you paint it in SEA camo.

 

Thierry

[F`s are my favs]

Btw another advice when making rivets - look at it as a relaxing therapy and make yourself some sidings, for example a couple of big cups of coffee.

[F`s are my favs]

Here are the photos - the 2nd and the 3rd are at a smaller angle and it`s noticeable that the seamline is still there, but just barely visible:

 

 

 

[ChuckT]

Thanks guys. I thought about using Mr. Surfacer, but my concern was it wouldn't take to scribing very well if needed.

 

It was my understanding that if you scribe through bare plastic, then Mr. Surfacer, it would be very clean of a scribe in the area where you go through the Mr. Surfacer.

 

So no issues then?

[Lee_K]

Ben Brown, a F-100 enthusiast and excellent modeler, tried to eliminate the rivets on the Trumpeter kit with Mr. Surfarcer and had indifferent results.  What he found is that tiny air bubbles got trapped in each rivet hole, which became exposed again when he sanded the Mr.Surfacer.  He was very frustrated and said, "never again".

[ChuckT]

That's kind of what I was thinking would happen.

 

I know Chuck540z3 has used liquid sprue to fill on problem areas and then sand smooth, rescribe with excellent results. I guess I could do some tests with Mr. Surfacer versus liquid sprue and see what works best?

[thierry laurent]

If you really want to fill them (at least partly) and want to avoid the trapped air bubble syndrom, use paint. You will have to do it at least three times but the positive aspect is the easy sanding.

 

Thierry

[Zero77]

If the Mr Surfacer is thinned enough, it should not trap bubbles. But paint is another solution, indeed.

 

Anyway with a coat of primer, i dont think the rivets would be that noticeable. The kit rivets may be a bit oversized, but they do exist on the real aircraft. On some kit, when some sanding is needing, having quite large rivets and panel lines may be a good point, as you dont have to rescribe them after sanding.

 

[ChuckT]

Good point. I want to do a NMF early 50's bird, so it needs to be super smooth.

[allthumbs]

Hi Chuck,

 

I feel your pain.

 

When it comes to reworking surface details, I find that it's many times easier to remove the raised lines and rivets of an older kit (for example Hasegawa's stable of LS jets from the late 1970s like the Skyhawk, Freedom Fighter, and Starfighter) compared to filling the oftentimes unsatisfactory or inaccurate features on a modern engraved kit.

 

In theory, it should be easy to fill recessed lines and fasteners: fill 'em up with your medium of choice, let dry, and sand flush, creating a "blank slate" on which to work.

 

In reality, it's seldom so simple.

 

The inevitable long term shrinkage from any solvent based filler (which might not reveal itself for weeks or even months) is one cause for frustration. Another is surface tension which, along with other microscopic processes, resists a putty/filler's ability to thoroughly permeate and "wet" small depressions. Too often pores are only "covered over," instead of filled, resulting in their reemergence after sanding back the surface.

 

Just ask anyone who has attempted the Sisyphean task of filling and "smoothing out" the wing of a Tamiya P-51D. For every success story, I'll bet at least a dozen modelers would admit to defeat, at least on the first attempt (and I'm one!).

 

Here's an approach that works for me. Though I confess to not having tried it over an entire model, it's proved very effective for parts of my long-drawn-out Electric Intruder build (so long running I'm tempted to rename its build thread "Plight of the Intruder").

 

The technique involves the use of a scribing tool, stretched sprue and cyanoacrylate glue.

 

To illustrate, here's a look at the outside surface of the RH jet air intake of the Trumpeter A-6. Note the four rows of engraved fasteners (intended to depict permanent structural rivet heads, in this case).

 

 

Photos of the real aircraft reveal a different look. The only fasteners visible are the screws for removable panels. The pattern of flush structural riveting, so prominently portrayed by Trumpeter, is practically invisible, even up-close at high resolution.

 

 

I decided to fill all of the kit engravings and start fresh. First, I ran my scriber along each row of rivets, the "dot-to-dot" treatment creating one long groove in the end. A length of stretched sprue is laid into each channel and secured in place with cyanoacrylate glue (medium or high viscosity types work best). Here, I would caution against the use of solvent cements like Tamiya Extra Thin to avoid that "sinking feeling" weeks later.

 

 

 

When the glue drys, everything is block sanded flush. I recommend the use of hard-backed sanders, at least in the early stages of dressing a seam treated with CA glue.

 

While it might seem (seam?) too labor-intensive a process, I can happily report that this technique seldom requires any do-overs (unlike most other methods, for reasons already mentioned). And it's as good a surface as any for re-scribing detail.

 

Here's a look at the part after seam treatment and a light coat of primer paint - the only blemish requiring touch up is a panel line that I originally addressed with a "conventional" technique of CA glue only (no initial widening of the trench or insertion of stretched sprue)...lesson learned!

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Rich

Edited September 3, 2016 by allthumbs

[Jack]

Don't buy it.  It only encourages them to do more crap like that.  It's not outside the realm of possibility that there will eventually be another 1/32 F-100 kit.

 

talking about constructive criticism............

[ChuckT]

Thanks Rich. yet more great info from you which is greatly appreciated.