Lets talk about black basing

[Guest Paul Budzik]

+! Steve

 

Paul

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKH764dBYdo

[Out2gtcha]

All of these effect techniques I hope will go away as just another fad, as they tend to be over-done and/or inappropriate to the subject.

I disagree wholeheartedly.

I think that some of these can be VERY useful indeed, and can in fact go a long way toward tonal variation, which is why most anyone uses any of them, including pre-shading and the black base. If you saw the one I was working on IRL its noticable but from most any other medium, including pics on the net it borders on imperceivable, let alone being over done IMHO.

 

 

Not to say that one could find real life examples of what the effects are trying to reproduce, but that the effects are becoming the new orthodoxy for model finish in general.

I also disagree there as well. The effects are not done in this manor to make a statement about how EVERY model should be done, but are in fact just new techniques available to the modeler to choose which to apply in the specific situation he or she is in. 

Id say one might even not be the best modeler at all if one takes any of this as what you should do in every situation.    

 

Its like eating beef or drinking a drink/spirit; some really enjoy it, and do it a lot; some dont do it at all, and NEVER enjoy the end result; but just like most anything, everything is not right for every situation, and most everything can be good in moderation. 

 

 

Remember when dry-brushing was the big thing? Or discovered exposed metal with paint wear and used silver rub-n-buff for effect?

lol - Remember? I still use those techniques, as closing ones mind off to say that any one technique is

"outdated" or "out of style" or passe, is non-sense.  I use the dry-brushing technique to this day ALL the time, as it really brings life to drab single color items as well as other things.  

R&B is now it its now hay day with the AKI Extreme metal polishes.   These are really great for very small interior parts that wont get handled, as well as great for parts you want extra shine on, that you may not necessarily want to paint. 

 

Its all weapons in your arsonal. Just because you may not use that specific technique all the time does not mean its, bad, wrong, passe, or a fad. AAMOF, I learned a LOT from using those "fad" techniques as you call them, and has brought me to a bunch of new techniques by just T&E of using them alone. 

 

Its all opinion basically, so do what you like the looks of, but just because you might not use or appreciate a certain technique does not mean its a fad.

 

[Guest Smitty44]

I actually black base and then spray the panels individually working from the inside out. I can let as much black show or cover up as much black as I want as I go along achieving what I might do by lightening or darkening my primary color. Call me crazy but I enjoy doing it that way, and can also eliminate the need for panel line washes most of the time.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Smitty44

[wunwinglow]

Observation, observation, observation.......

 

Such as, how on earth do you simulate grubby hand prints in gun smoke stains?

 

Hey, I've got the photos!!

 

Tim

[tucohoward]

I like it very much as well. If there was no room for creativity/artistry/fun in model painting I probably wouldn't be that interested in it.

 

Jay

[Bill_S]

Another tool to add to the modeling arsenal. I'm going to give it a try on at least one of my Georges.

[DoogsATX]

It seems a lot of work but Brian's especially good at floaty planes. How I wish I had his talent (and spray booth)! Eduard have a Kingfisher canopy mask set due in March - probably six weeks too late ?

 

I'm going to try the Doog's method selectively under an aluminium lacquer Fishbed C next month. First serious airbrushing in seven years, so possibly a tad ambitious (!)

 

Really admire the skills shown on LSP.

 

Tony

 

Before you do that, I strongly recommend watching (or fast-forwarding through) these two videos. I've been messing around with putting some variation into bare metal and the results were not exactly what I expected. Promising, but not what I would have guessed going in.

 

[DoogsATX]

I use so-called black basing as a primer coat for metallic finishes like Alclad and in cockpits, where I can create dark shadows with the cover coat sprayed from above. It works very well for both. As a general primer or undercoat for the rest of the fuselage that isn't going to be metallic, I don't really see the point. Random mottling can still be created using black as a pre-shade (no, not on every panel line that will make the model look plaid) against a lighter background, so the full black treatment to me is overkill. I also like to keep paint and micro-fillers to a minimum, because they also fill desired detail like rivet depressions. If your plastic is sanded and prepared properly, a micro-filler is unnecessary. Of course, this is just my personal opinion.

 

Two quick points.

 

First, there are several very good black primers on the market. So if you can prime in black and immediately start building your finish from there, you're actually using less paint than priming in gray (or white or whatever) and then coming over it with black.

 

Second, to the point that Brian mentioned with covering the stark black - I've found that with black basing you actually use a whole lot LESS paint. I did all of the gray camo on my 1/32 F-104 is about 1 1/4 tattoo ink cups work of paint. If you've played with these at all - they're tiny. And this was thinned paint, at that. I think I used slightly more of the dark green...but still we're talking very little paint.

[Mebo]

Hi Doogs

 

First of thanks a lot for the very informative videos.

 

Have you thought of making the tonal shifts in the aluminum color by having different surface quality (coarseness) in the black primer ?

 

Im thinking. Alclad finishes are the best over a very smooth shiny black base.

 

How would the finish look if the glossy black primer was sanded with some VERY fine (6000 grit or finer)wet and dry paper in random fashion before the alclad. Im thinking maybe masking individual panels around the edges before the sanding to get that quilted look.

 

Maybe after sanding the glossy black base it would be useful to polish the entire airframe a little all over to tie it all together a bit before the Alclad.

 

Looking forward to seeing the NMF build you are planning.

 

Thanks again

 

Mikkel

Edited February 9, 2016 by Mebo

[Shawn M]

Just used this on my spitfire, the variation is subtle but effective in person. Its also very very easy to taylor the effect to suite your desired finish.

After Doogs great vid on NMF base variation I can wait to try it out.

[DoogsATX]

Hi Doogs

 

First of thanks a lot for the very informative videos.

 

Have you thought of making the tonal shifts in the aluminum color by having different surface quality (coarseness) in the black primer ?

 

Im thinking. Alclad finishes are the best over a very smooth shiny black base.

 

How would the finish look if the glossy black primer was sanded with some VERY fine (6000 grit or finer)wet and dry paper in random fashion before the alclad. Im thinking maybe masking individual panels around the edges before the sanding to get that quilted look.

 

Maybe after sanding the glossy black base it would be useful to polish the entire airframe a little all over to tie it all together a bit before the Alclad.

 

Looking forward to seeing the NMF build you are planning.

 

Thanks again

 

Mikkel

 

So over on the Scale Modelers Critique Group we have going on over on Facebook, someone just tried putting Alclad Polished Aluminum down over a few different finishes, and got a really interesting worn/dulled look out of it. Which makes me think there might very well be something to the idea of playing with finish. I think before I commit to paint on the NMF project (Tanmodel's new Thunderflash) I'm going to do a bit of experimenting with mottling some flat or satin black (Mr Surfacer 1500 would work nicely I imagine) over TS-14 gloss black. It'd probably work rather well, considering my prior findings, but I could see it being frustrating to spray black onto black!

[Mebo]

So over on the Scale Modelers Critique Group we have going on over on Facebook, someone just tried putting Alclad Polished Aluminum down over a few different finishes, and got a really interesting worn/dulled look out of it. Which makes me think there might very well be something to the idea of playing with finish. I think before I commit to paint on the NMF project (Tanmodel's new Thunderflash) I'm going to do a bit of experimenting with mottling some flat or satin black (Mr Surfacer 1500 would work nicely I imagine) over TS-14 gloss black. It'd probably work rather well, considering my prior findings, but I could see it being frustrating to spray black onto black!

 

I see your frustration spraying black onto black, witch is why i thought about  sanding instead.  This would also have the benefit of less paint build up ( conserving details) and the ability to buff the surface to "tie the sanded areas together"

 

Im thinking that a matt black surface is basicly just a coarse black surface. The glossyness is  just a reflection of how "slick" the surface is.

 

So painting the gloss surface with a matt black paint is in reality just making some of the areas coarser witch is why sanding in theory should yield the same result with less paint build-up.

 

Looking forward to seeing your take on this.

 

M

[chuck540z3]

Two quick points.

 

First, there are several very good black primers on the market. So if you can prime in black and immediately start building your finish from there, you're actually using less paint than priming in gray (or white or whatever) and then coming over it with black.

 

Second, to the point that Brian mentioned with covering the stark black - I've found that with black basing you actually use a whole lot LESS paint. I did all of the gray camo on my 1/32 F-104 is about 1 1/4 tattoo ink cups work of paint. If you've played with these at all - they're tiny. And this was thinned paint, at that. I think I used slightly more of the dark green...but still we're talking very little paint.

 

 

One point.  Unless I'm painting with Alclad, I never use a primer at all.  I use MM enamels almost exclusively and lately Tamiya lacquers.  They both stick to plastic very well without a primer and like any primer coat, they reveal flaws that I fix later with minimal new paint.  I'm not knocking your black basing methods, because I've seen your results and they are beautiful.  I just think I can do the same with mottled black sprayed on a grey plastic background, followed by my main paint color.

 

Cheers,

Chuck

[Guest Peterpools]

For Alclads and AK, changing the base color will alter the NMF quite a bit. Keeping the base colors smooth as silk is still of prime importance.

Peter

[TonyT]

I've been using black primer out of a rattle can for years, my rusty tank is based on it.