I/32nd I.D Vacform RAAF Canberra B.20

[allthumbs]

Sorry to hear this Phil.

 

Know that good thoughts and well wishes from your friends and fans here are headed your way.

 

All the best,

 

Rich

[John at Aeroclub]

Wishing you a good recovery.. The tip tanks on the Cox Aeromodeller drawing (with the ID kit) are drawn too short I can dig out the dimensions from my Canberra files if you wish.

 

John

[Hubert Boillot]

Very sorry for you Phil. Nothing is more important than your health. So take your time to recover fully.

 

On our side, we will handle our withdrawal syndroms from not seeing your Canberra updates

 

Hubert

[Tony T]

Get well soon!

 

Your Canberra is the epitome of solid engineering so it can wait.

 

Tony

[Piprm]

Thank you all very much guys!... I really appreciate all your well wishes. 

Phil

[Guest]

phil, know how you feel my friend. Get well soon....Harv

[JRutman]

I hope that your health issues get straightened out shortly buddy. This is a fascinating build and industrial strength as well.

J

[Lee White]

Get well soon, Phil! Get back to your epic Cranberry when you feel up to it!

[Shawn M]

get well soon Phil, rest up and heal.

[John at Aeroclub]

The notes I have are overall length for the tip tank at 14' 2".   The tip of the tank being 39" from the wing tip leading edge down the centre line of the tank. This makes the Cox drawing  of the tank 24" too short.. basically it needs extending from it's deepest point which is 30" diamter.

 

John

 

The following is some notes I did to, I hope, inform and amuse. 

 

 

Tech notes on Canberra's

 

There seems to be some confusion over the differences between Canberra versions, perhaps this will help. Although the overall lengths may differ and canopies change, the basic nose profiles do not change in plan and side views.

 

B.Mk.2

 This was the first production Canberra, powered by the Avon 101 which had the single breech cartridge starter.  Three crew ,Pilot, Nav and Observer / Bomb aimer, all in ejection seats, one at the front slightly offset under the goldfish “bubble top†and two in the back. 

There is also a folding Rumbold seat for a forth crew member with a chest parachute.      The nose is glazed with an offset clear vis panel . this is the most common base for all later “funnies†like the T.11, T.17. TT.18 etc.  It has radial spoked  main wheels.

 

B57A

This is an Americanised B.2 built by Martin and was powered by licence built British, Armstrong Siddeley Saphire engines  (J65) There were also local airframe production changes.  The later 57's are a totally different beast based on the Canberra airframe.

 

PR.3

A Photo /recce development of the B.2 but with a 14.5  inch extension  for cameras inserted in front of the bomb bay which was smaller because of extra tankage and now termed a flare bay.  It had a plain glazed nose.

 

T.4

This is the Trainer derivative of the B.2 and is recognised by an unglazed metal nose cap and the three EJ seats are re-arranged with two seats under the†bubble top† ( a pantomime to get into) and one at the back.  It also has two DV windows in the “bubbleâ€.  The nose swings to one side for equipment access at frame One (which is not the first frame). A version for export called the T.13 of which early examples did not have ejection seats for the pilots.

 

 

At rest the T.4's elevators are depressed because of the locking bar fitted to keep the stick forwards to allow the swing seat operation. Conversely the bomber versions elevators are up when no tail locks are fitted.  The seats in the T.4 are 3CT's and are similar in layout to the Mk.2 in the Navs position but don't have thigh guards. (Note They are not the same as a Mk.3 fitted in for instance, a Hunter)

 

If you use this info anywhere I would appreciate it if you would credit me as this is my authorship.

 

 B.Mk.6

 

The B.6 introduced the Avon 109 with a new triple breech starter this has a larger pointed centre body in the intake (the early 3 shot type is quite bulbous)  also extra tankage in the wing leading edges. This made it heavier and called for larger stronger four spoke wheels .  Variations of the B.6 are the B.I.6  B.15 and B.16.

 

PR.Mk.7

This is the photo development of the B.6 and is a PR.3  layout with the Avon 109 and the  B.6 tank wing.  Two Crew.   RN TT.22's are converted PR.7s.

 

B.I.8

The “8†introduced the offset fighter canopy and at first glance appears radically different but is really a “boy racer†B.6 with a belly gun pack and wing pylons.  The pilot has an EJ seat but the poor Nav does not. Instead he was given a chest type parachute and take off seat at the back and a sidewards facing sliding seat in the nose which had extra windows.   Both crew  enter by the side door as on all previous Mk's of Canberra.  The canopy does not open.

 

The pilots EJ seat is mounted on the pressure bulkhead on an extension of the standard navs EJ rail so he is further aft and higher than in all previous Mk's.

 

PR.9

This is the GT version fitted with Avon 200 series engines which have a fickle Avpin liquid starter. The wings have extended tips and the chord is extended inboard of the engines on both leading and trailing edges.  The pilot has 3CS EJ seat under a B.I.8 style canopy which does open (clam shell style) and the Nav has an EJ seat (type 4 QS) which is buried in the nose.    Access to the Nav's station is via a swinging nose (at frame One) and the Nav has two tiny windows, a periscope, also a forked stick (to stick notes in to pass them back) to communicate with the pilot.   

 

The nose profile shape of all basic Canberras are the same regardless of which hole the pilot looks out of despite what some drawings suggest.

 

Hope this helps

John

 

Crew access to the T.4. A pantomime in several acts.

 

The ground crewman unlocks the base of the second pilots seat and swings it forwards so, with no-one in the seat, it locks against the panel. (The top of the seat is hinged from a tubular beam so it swings in an arc).  The normal first pilots seat is also attached to this beam on the port (Left) side but it has been moved further over to port

 

The Nav crawls past into the back and straps in. 

 

The second seat is then swung completely further aft and locked at a steep angle so the way is clear for access to the port seat from the entrance door.

 

The first pilot climbs in past the stbd seat and straps in.

 

The second pilot now climbs in and straps into the aft angled seat, with his feet braced against the rudder bar plinth.

At a signal from him, the ground crewman now moves the seat back to it's central base locking position, and all three crew are now in position and the crew side door can be closed.

At this point the Nav decides he does need a pee after all……..

 

Canberra brakes.

B.1
Wheel brake lever fitted to column centre boss

B.2
Wheel brake lever fitted to column centre boss

PR.3
Wheel brake lever fitted to column centre boss

T.4
Wheel brake lever fitted to each column centre boss.

B(I).6
Maxarets fitted

PR.7
Wheel brake lever fitted to column centre boss

B(I).8
No wheel brakes on column. Maxarets with toe brakes instead

PR.9
No wheel brakes on column. Maxarets with toe brakes instead

B(I).12
No wheel brakes on column. Maxarets with toe brakes instead

T.13
Wheel brake lever fitted to each column centre boss

E.15
Wheel brake lever fitted to column centre boss

T.17
Wheel brake lever fitted to column centre boss

TT.18
Wheel brake lever fitted to column centre boss


Brake details via Ross Mc Neil restorer of Canberra PR.9 XH175

 

 

 

 

Putting it simply the Matchbox PR.9 kit is quite wrong.  The engine nacelles are the wrong shape, especially near the main spar.  Also the fuselage is B(I)8 length (too short) and the Frog "8" is PR.9 length for good measure.

 

The tailplane chord on the Matchbox kit is wrong, but it is an error made in good faith.  I found only a couple of years ago that the PR.9 AP Vol One  has the wrong chord length given on the leading particulars page and this was taken as gospel by the late Maurice Landi, but someone at some time had messed up the AP dimensions.

 

The RAF never noticed and no-one ever checked it ,simply because the Canberra tail chord is always given as a projection to the a/c centreline and this is impossible to measure and it is a dimension which the RAF servicing types would never need to know. so it went unnoticed, until I got suspicious as I used to work on "9"s and started to project lines on photos.  This convinced me of the error and it was confirmed by the Eng WO of 39 Sqn who kindly had some guys measure the chord at the root for me. This confirmed that the tailplane was the same as all other Marks. As the "9" has an un-tabbed powered rudder unlike all the other Mk's there is a slight rudder chord difference but not enough to worry about.

 

I provided the basic outline shape drawings to Sword, who did the Hannants one, as they were going to use Czech copies of the Aerodata 34 drawings which though beautifully drawn are inaccurate.

 

That's it in a nutshell.

 

Regards

 

John

Edited September 15, 2016 by John at Aeroclub

[Guest Peterpools]

Phil

Just terrible news as there is nothing more important then your health.  Please foolow the doctors instructions to the tee and rest as much as possible. I'm sure all will be well

Your friend

Peter

[John at Aeroclub]

[Uncle Les]

It's already been said - your health is of paramount importance. Get well soon mate.

[Piprm]

The notes I have are overall length for the tip tank at 14' 2".   The tip of the tank being 39" from the wing tip leading edge down the centre line of the tank. This makes the Cox drawing  of the tank 24" too short.. basically it needs extending from it's deepest point which is 30" diamter.

 

John

 

The following is some notes I did to, I hope, inform and amuse. 

 

 

Tech notes on Canberra's

 

There seems to be some confusion over the differences between Canberra versions, perhaps this will help. Although the overall lengths may differ and canopies change, the basic nose profiles do not change in plan and side views.

 

B.Mk.2

 This was the first production Canberra, powered by the Avon 101 which had the single breech cartridge starter.  Three crew ,Pilot, Nav and Observer / Bomb aimer, all in ejection seats, one at the front slightly offset under the goldfish “bubble top†and two in the back. 

There is also a folding Rumbold seat for a forth crew member with a chest parachute.      The nose is glazed with an offset clear vis panel . this is the most common base for all later “funnies†like the T.11, T.17. TT.18 etc.  It has radial spoked  main wheels.

 

B57A

This is an Americanised B.2 built by Martin and was powered by licence built British, Armstrong Siddeley Saphire engines  (J65) There were also local airframe production changes.  The later 57's are a totally different beast based on the Canberra airframe.

 

PR.3

A Photo /recce development of the B.2 but with a 14.5  inch extension  for cameras inserted in front of the bomb bay which was smaller because of extra tankage and now termed a flare bay.  It had a plain glazed nose.

 

T.4

This is the Trainer derivative of the B.2 and is recognised by an unglazed metal nose cap and the three EJ seats are re-arranged with two seats under the†bubble top† ( a pantomime to get into) and one at the back.  It also has two DV windows in the “bubbleâ€.  The nose swings to one side for equipment access at frame One (which is not the first frame). A version for export called the T.13 of which early examples did not have ejection seats for the pilots.

 

 

At rest the T.4's elevators are depressed because of the locking bar fitted to keep the stick forwards to allow the swing seat operation. Conversely the bomber versions elevators are up when no tail locks are fitted.  The seats in the T.4 are 3CT's and are similar in layout to the Mk.2 in the Navs position but don't have thigh guards. (Note They are not the same as a Mk.3 fitted in for instance, a Hunter)

 

If you use this info anywhere I would appreciate it if you would credit me as this is my authorship.

 

 B.Mk.6

 

The B.6 introduced the Avon 109 with a new triple breech starter this has a larger pointed centre body in the intake (the early 3 shot type is quite bulbous)  also extra tankage in the wing leading edges. This made it heavier and called for larger stronger four spoke wheels .  Variations of the B.6 are the B.I.6  B.15 and B.16.

 

PR.Mk.7

This is the photo development of the B.6 and is a PR.3  layout with the Avon 109 and the  B.6 tank wing.  Two Crew.   RN TT.22's are converted PR.7s.

 

B.I.8

The “8†introduced the offset fighter canopy and at first glance appears radically different but is really a “boy racer†B.6 with a belly gun pack and wing pylons.  The pilot has an EJ seat but the poor Nav does not. Instead he was given a chest type parachute and take off seat at the back and a sidewards facing sliding seat in the nose which had extra windows.   Both crew  enter by the side door as on all previous Mk's of Canberra.  The canopy does not open.

 

The pilots EJ seat is mounted on the pressure bulkhead on an extension of the standard navs EJ rail so he is further aft and higher than in all previous Mk's.

 

PR.9

This is the GT version fitted with Avon 200 series engines which have a fickle Avpin liquid starter. The wings have extended tips and the chord is extended inboard of the engines on both leading and trailing edges.  The pilot has 3CS EJ seat under a B.I.8 style canopy which does open (clam shell style) and the Nav has an EJ seat (type 4 QS) which is buried in the nose.    Access to the Nav's station is via a swinging nose (at frame One) and the Nav has two tiny windows, a periscope, also a forked stick (to stick notes in to pass them back) to communicate with the pilot.   

 

The nose profile shape of all basic Canberras are the same regardless of which hole the pilot looks out of despite what some drawings suggest.

 

Hope this helps

John

 

Crew access to the T.4. A pantomime in several acts.

 

The ground crewman unlocks the base of the second pilots seat and swings it forwards so, with no-one in the seat, it locks against the panel. (The top of the seat is hinged from a tubular beam so it swings in an arc).  The normal first pilots seat is also attached to this beam on the port (Left) side but it has been moved further over to port

 

The Nav crawls past into the back and straps in. 

 

The second seat is then swung completely further aft and locked at a steep angle so the way is clear for access to the port seat from the entrance door.

 

The first pilot climbs in past the stbd seat and straps in.

 

The second pilot now climbs in and straps into the aft angled seat, with his feet braced against the rudder bar plinth.

At a signal from him, the ground crewman now moves the seat back to it's central base locking position, and all three crew are now in position and the crew side door can be closed.

At this point the Nav decides he does need a pee after all……..

 

Canberra brakes.

 

B.1

Wheel brake lever fitted to column centre boss

 

B.2

Wheel brake lever fitted to column centre boss

 

PR.3

Wheel brake lever fitted to column centre boss

 

T.4

Wheel brake lever fitted to each column centre boss.

 

B(I).6

Maxarets fitted

 

PR.7

Wheel brake lever fitted to column centre boss

 

B(I).8

No wheel brakes on column. Maxarets with toe brakes instead

 

PR.9

No wheel brakes on column. Maxarets with toe brakes instead

 

B(I).12

No wheel brakes on column. Maxarets with toe brakes instead

 

T.13

Wheel brake lever fitted to each column centre boss

 

E.15

Wheel brake lever fitted to column centre boss

 

T.17

Wheel brake lever fitted to column centre boss

 

TT.18

Wheel brake lever fitted to column centre boss

 

 

Brake details via Ross Mc Neil restorer of Canberra PR.9 XH175

 

 

 

 

Putting it simply the Matchbox PR.9 kit is quite wrong.  The engine nacelles are the wrong shape, especially near the main spar.  Also the fuselage is B(I)8 length (too short) and the Frog "8" is PR.9 length for good measure.

 

The tailplane chord on the Matchbox kit is wrong, but it is an error made in good faith.  I found only a couple of years ago that the PR.9 AP Vol One  has the wrong chord length given on the leading particulars page and this was taken as gospel by the late Maurice Landi, but someone at some time had messed up the AP dimensions.

 

The RAF never noticed and no-one ever checked it ,simply because the Canberra tail chord is always given as a projection to the a/c centreline and this is impossible to measure and it is a dimension which the RAF servicing types would never need to know. so it went unnoticed, until I got suspicious as I used to work on "9"s and started to project lines on photos.  This convinced me of the error and it was confirmed by the Eng WO of 39 Sqn who kindly had some guys measure the chord at the root for me. This confirmed that the tailplane was the same as all other Marks. As the "9" has an un-tabbed powered rudder unlike all the other Mk's there is a slight rudder chord difference but not enough to worry about.

 

I provided the basic outline shape drawings to Sword, who did the Hannants one, as they were going to use Czech copies of the Aerodata 34 drawings which though beautifully drawn are inaccurate.

 

That's it in a nutshell.

 

Regards

 

John

 

 

Wow!... Thanks John for the additional information on the tanks and front wheel structures.

I'll digest it more when I am able and more active.

Many Thanks!

Phil

Edited September 16, 2016 by Piprm

[Piprm]

Phil

Just terrible news as there is nothing more important then your health.  Please foolow the doctors instructions to the tee and rest as much as possible. I'm sure all will be well

Your friend

Peter

 

Yeah, Thanks Peter,

The hospital has the home nurses visiting me every morning .. Changing the Intravenous bags, taking blood pressure , temp -  etc... so I am being well taken care of!

Phil

Edited September 16, 2016 by Piprm