Barry Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) I know "another" F-4 Phantom topic though not a completely new topic I though it needed its own topic and thread. First two photos are of my cockpit based on the Navy version then the USAF version. I am modifying the Tamiya cockpit to the primary structure common to all versions of the F-4 Phantom. The goal is to create a single basic cockpit tub that will accommodate equipment and additional structure necessary to allow a "plug & play" approach to the Phantom cockpit. I am hoping to be able to use the same basic cockpit structure with hopefully minor adjustments to fit the Revell "new" tool Phantoms as well. Though I knew from personal work experience that the Aft Bulkhead in the Forward Cockpit also served as the Forward Bulkhead for the Aft Cockpit I had been working the Tamiya cockpit as molded. I simply could not get the Aft cockpit Radar Scope to sit at the proper angle. This condition affects either the USAF or USN style cockpit so the answer was to do as the original designers did and use the same canted bulkhead for both cockpits. Here is what the difference is. Here is my third iteration TAFN Barry Edited July 17, 2015 by Barry Harold and Tony T 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 I think I have hit on an acceptable solution. A common forward cockpit and interchangeable aft cockpit either "land based" or "naval" version. Individual pieces for base "land based" version Sequence of assembly Sub assemblies Harold and Bill Cross 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted May 3, 2015 Author Share Posted May 3, 2015 Here are a couple of pics of the assembled look. Your thoughts please. Thanks for looking, Barry Harold 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loic Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 :popcorn: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Ray Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Looks like a good solution, Barry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Barry, you might want to check the angle of the rear cockpit back wall. AFAIK, there is a slight angle to it. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 Barry, you might want to check the angle of the rear cockpit back wall. AFAIK, there is a slight angle to it. Bruce Hi Bruce, It is not fixed into a vertical position I have it canted aft slightly. I need to dig out a fuselage station drawing and see if I can not get a fairly accurate positioning. It can not be too canted as laying on the floor looking up it looked pretty vertical though I know it is not. Thanks, Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Cool idea Barry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Barry, the other problem is the depth of the Tamiya cockpit tub. I measured an actual cockpit and the distance from the canopy rail to the top of the side console(both front and rear cockpit) is correct but the but the distance from the side console to the floor is too shallow. The Revell cockpit has the right depth from the side console to the floor in both tubs but the distance in the rear cockpit from the canopy rail to the side console is about 1/8th inch too far and the rear cockpit needs to be raised that amount. this creates all sorts of problems with the various seats. They all are made for the depth of the Tamiya cockpit except the Paragon seat which is made to scale. Problem is if you use it in a Tamiya cockpit or resin replacement tub the paragon seats sticks out of the top of the cockpit. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hi Bruce, Seems I remember you and I having this discussion before and I forgot. So if I lower the floor with respect to the upper edge of the side consoles in both Tamiya cockpits it will be closer to the correct depth. Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Yes, use the Revell depth as a guide. You can judge the correct location of how high up the seat needs to be based on the chute pack or pictures. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 A new discovery and not a good one at that. I have inserted a temporary .125" extension to lower the cockpit floor a scale 4". Guess what; the front cockpit and the nose wheel well clash .070 to .090" I am guessing. Drawing shows how I plan to lower the floor and maintain the correct spacing between the consoles and the canopy sill. I have added the required spacer to the lower edge of the aft bulkhead and a temporary spacer to the front just for the test fit and found the clash. Know I know why the Tamiya cockpit is too shallow. I have carefully cut out the nose wheel well in its entirety so I can reinstall it after I figure out what to do. I will go by the Mighty Eight Air Force Museum tomorrow and measure the depth of the nose wheel well and see where the discrepancy lies. Hopefully I will be able to lower the complete wheel well as opposed to chopping off the roof. Oh by the way I was careful not to break anything while removing the wheel well but...my left index finger finally got in the way of that #11 blade after about an hour of scribing and slicing. Ouch! Wife threatened to take my "toys" away, again! TAFN Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Barry, you are right about the conflict of the bottom of the cockpit and the top of the nose wheel. You may have to just use a thin piece of plastic for the floor and sand down the top of the nose wheel in order for the two to fit. If you shorten the depth of the wheel well then you run into the problem of how the nose gear leg fits. Isn't modeling fun! Bruce Kagemusha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Barry, Isn't modeling fun! Bruce You bet. nothing like spilling blood for your cause! 😜 Edited May 7, 2015 by Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Barry, I have been struggling with the same cockpit issues. Since I have a couple more Tamiya and I make a canopy rail fix to my Revell kits (off Tamiya molds, see my 308th F-4E build if you haven't already), I've wanted to have a "universal" cockpit tub that I can mold and cast as needed. You live down near Savannah don't you? Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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