LSP_Kevin Posted February 9, 2015 Author Share Posted February 9, 2015 Thanks guys. When I get some time, I'm going to revisit my wing and try a few of David's tips. I'll add any results here, as well as starting a build thread for the actual model in the Non-LSP forum. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Ron Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Isn't this type of material meant to be rubbed on with a cloth like shoe polish and buffed out all in one effort? sort of polished into the plastic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Isn't this type of material meant to be rubbed on with a cloth like shoe polish and buffed out all in one effort? sort of polished into the plastic? Like Rub-N-Buff, yes...............to a point. But I have found that if you apply it too inconsistently going on, you get similar results when polishing. From my perspective, it seems all about 1 - The surface prep, and 2 - (JUST as important) the WAY its applied, as the only even near acceptable results I have found, have been when I applied a very even coat when using mineral spirits to thin and shoot through my AB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Griewski Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Interesting thread. To me it looks like too much trouble. For airframes, I'm a believer in Alclad. It does exactly what I ask it to do with no surprises. I may try it for smaller parts though, as mentioned earlier. I agree. I used rub-n-buff years ago on 1/72 scale. Used a t-shirt to apply it. Same results and worked best to dry brush to add metal high lights. Thanks so much for the review. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 OK, here's the result of my trying some of David's tips - mainly brushing it on, and then spreading it around with a finger: And up close, you can see that it produced an unsightly build-up, somewhat resembling the orange-peel effect you sometimes get with airbrushing: That's not a great finish at all. It's also still coming off on my hands in such quantities that I'm amazed there's any left on the wing. Now, I did this in something of a hurry, as I have very limited time at the moment. And I also did it over the top of the existing True Metal finish, which is possibly not advisable. I think, in order to do David's method justice, I need to follow it more closely. I'll be stripping all the True Metal off (I've wasted a fair bit on there so far), and starting again with a base coat of Tamiya AS-12. David used Alclad, but TS-12 is much cheaper by comparison, more robust as a finish, and will still do the job required. I think the secret to David's approach is that the underlying base coat is already silver; this means patchy areas or areas of rub-through will be significantly less noticeable, and will probably contribute to a more realistic effect - which is exactly the point David makes. Of course, the notion of applying a decent natural metal finish and then covering it up with this stuff seems redundant, and at this juncture I'm not sure I'd ordinarily bother. But I'm keen to persevere in the name of science to see if I can get close to David's excellent results. My suspicion, though, is that the real secret revolves around David being a much better modeller than I am. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afvmodeller Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Hello everyone, Looking at your latest tests Kev I suspect that you are applying it too thickly and over too big an area at a time so drying is occurring leading to the lumpy finish. My experience is that even working over small areas at a time it can be applied quickly and I managed the entire B-17 wing in less than an hour - an they don't come much bigger than that! Here are some images I took of my technique - if i get time I may try a video but don't hold your breath! I apply it with a flat brush very lightly loaded - a little goes a long way and of course you need a good polished surface before you apply the Alclad base. Spreading it out quickly - small gaps are not important - this area will cover from the inspection port (above my thumb) to the end of the panel with the double riveted border. working fast I use my finger to spread the paste and blend into the adjacent area on the left that has already been treated. Keep it moving! Keep burnishing until the finish stabilises - i.e. it does not change as you work it. You can wipe down with a soft cloth but I find the only transfer is coming from my rubbing finger! To answer the question about the decals - yes they were applied directly onto the True Metal - no sealant or varnish. I hope these help! regards David AIR Modeller Magazine D.B. Andrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Thanks for those excellent tips David. I have no idea how you hit upon the exact combination of techniques you're outlining, especially since they run so counter to the supplied instructions. But I'm glad you're sharing them with us! I've stripped the True Metal off my wing, and will move forward with copying your approach more directly. Before I can do that however, the kit has a nasty fit issue, where the forward stanchion of the main wing support (above the fuselage) meets the wing. I want to deal with this before painting the wing. I'll start a new thread in Non-LSP Works and continue the build there, but will post back here when I get to the True Metal stage again. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afvmodeller Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Ha ! Neither have I ! I didn't have any instructions ! The plus point is that you can just wipe it off and start again. Hope you can crack it as I think the results are well worth it. regards David Edited February 10, 2015 by afvmodeller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted February 10, 2015 Author Share Posted February 10, 2015 Yep, they certainly look worth it in your photos David! For those interested in my kit build, I've just started a topic in Non-LSP Works: http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?showtopic=54849 Nothing new to report there yet, but hopefully I'll be back later in the week with photos. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 So, I finally found a bit of time to get back to my testing, with somewhat improved results. I've tried to copy David's methods as outlined above, but as usual, it's not as simple as it seems! But first, here's my test wing, with a base coat of Tamiya AS-12, followed by application of the True Metal aluminium to the outer wing sections: So, as you can see in the photo, it's quite hard to tell the difference, and that's because True Metal produces a colour very similar to AS-12. This makes it difficult to see exactly what you're doing while working with it. It's fair to say, though, that the difference between the two is more noticeable in the flesh than it is in the photos. The other small issue the AS-12 causes is that, as a base, it's quite 'slippery', so it's hard to avoid simply smearing the True Metal around over the top of it. Overall, though, I think it's a much improved look over my efforts before this: The effect is that of slightly tarnished aluminium, with subtly variegated finish that, to the naked eye at least, looks a bit less like silver paint than the AS-12. Here's a photo that attempts to show the difference between the two finishes: I don't think I've quite got the application technique perfected yet, but will continue to work on it. I've decided to leave the rest of the lower wing in AS-12, and focus on doing all of the top wing. Then again, I might use the rest of the lower wing for more practice before turning to the more visible top. We shall see! Kev D.B. Andrus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottsGT Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Back in the pre-internet days when I was building R/C airplanes there was a similar product that was supposed to be gas/petrol and nitro/alcolhol fuel proof. You sprayed on a base "adhesion" coat of something. You then dipped a soft cloth into a silver powder and rubbed it into the base you just sprayed on a few minutes earlier. The finish was absolutely beautiful. I did a Byron Ryan STA with about an 82" wingspan. The fuselage had the polished aluminum look to it. It was stunning! Problem was, it completely washed of with tap water. Called the mfgr. and he told me to buff harder to heat the base coat. (of course I used it all up on the first attempt and he gladly sold me more). So not only did I buff harder, but I warmed the surface with a heat gun and buffed. Let it sit a week and again, it washed off with tap water. Needless to say, he did not last long in the hobby industry. Work spread quickly he was a snake oil salesman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul2660 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 When AK first announced this product I emailed AK in regard to using to cover an entire airframe. His reaponse was he did not recommend it for this instead for small parts like drop tanks, torpedoes etc. He implied that a follow on product more in line with other airbrush metal products might be coming in the future. It's a rub and buff for sure in its current form but possibly not well suited for larger jobs. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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