HK B-17...C 5/4 sweating the metal

[brahman104]

Thanks Kev! You don't muck around do you I've just been re-reading that last post and there's some really terrible grammatical errors in there. My grade 12 english teacher would be disgusted. I hope it still gets the point across!

 

Craig

[CODY]

Thanks Kev! You don't muck around do you I've just been re-reading that last post and there's some really terrible grammatical errors in there. My grade 12 english teacher would be disgusted. I hope it still gets the point across!

 

Craig

 

It don't make no never mind about grama checking yer math-matical stuff...just keep going...I'm luvin' this!...

[LSP_Kevin]

Thanks Kev! You don't muck around do you I've just been re-reading that last post and there's some really terrible grammatical errors in there. My grade 12 english teacher would be disgusted. I hope it still gets the point across!

 

Craig

 

I was - literally - blinded by the light!

 

Kev

[brahman104]

And here's part two! 

 

So for everyone playing along at home, you know that I've been wrestling with exactly how I was going to tackle the very fine rib and stringer structure that made up the interior of the bomb bay. Over the last few weeks I've been trying various methods in pursuit of the most convincing approach and most seemed to fail for one reason or another. So it finally came to me that I need something fairly robust and repeatable considering there are so many of them in there.

 

I finally settled on the resin option, and in the end for a bit of variation to the colour (suggested by Terry, thank you Sir once again!) I painted the ribs with AK's extreme metal duralumin and the stringers were done in the same interior green as the flight deck, in much the same way as the shots from Duxford's Mary Alice portray. No idea is this is accurate but it does provide some handy tonal variation. Anyway, on with the pics.....

 

So a little bit out of chronological sequence, but this is what I started with after I had cast the ribs.... a whole heap of extra resin to remove. Oh yes, it was messy. To help out, I also gave the outline a wash so I wouldn't inadvertently remove too much.

 

 

So taking almost the entire day to do, I was finally left with this. I had made 15 for each side, but for some reason, with a gap between each of 4.5mm seemed more believable, so I only used 10 per side.

 

 

Because I like to make things difficult for myself, I built each as an assembly that I could then glue to the inside. A big thank you to Wolf at this point for sharing with me his concept of using 5min epoxy to attach parts as you can remove the extra later.... Thanks Wolf!

 

 

These were the original plastic parts as I couldn't get these to cast very well. I only needed one of each anyway.

 

 

And here's the rear section...

 

 

And into their new home.... every bit as fiddly as you could imagine!

 

 

 

 

I actually made left and right ribs, but seeing as the detail was only on one side and one would typically look from the centre of the bay, I used a mix of both so the details were always facing "in." 

 

They still look a little rough I suppose and I probably could have cleaned them up a little better, but they are exceedingly fragile and I wasn't going to push my luck!

 

One side down and one to go. What happened to the weekend???????

 

Cheers,

 

Craig

 

 

[junkerboy]

This is a truly sweet build!!

[Barry]

JUST :wow:Awesome detail work!!!!!

Barry

[Guest Peterpools]

Craig

Completely blown away ... absolutely incredible work.

Keep 'em coming

Peter

[ClumsyDude]

Wow ... I was impressed at the radio room opening, blown away by the light, and then I saw the bomb bay. I think you've exceeded your quota of awesomeness for the week.

 

Jim

[Troy Molitor]

Amazing work here. The stringers and formers are simply awesome. Thanks for sharing this with us simple mortals.

Great work here.

 

Regards,

Troy.

[Guest]

WOW ! Metal, lamp?........Harv

[TKB]

Craig,

 

That bomb bay is going to be just one of many highlights of an overall awesome model!

I don't see the "roughness" on any parts that you mentioned (the artist is his own worse critic)

Don't sweat it; I'm sure it's all going to blend together quite nicely by the time you're finished.

You going to add some LEDs?

Believe there was one incorporated into the front catwalk step and two overhead lights (at about 10 and 2 o'clock positions) mounted on the ribs toward the rear of the bomb bay.

 

I know you still have work to do on the radio compartment "racetrack" cutout structure.

I don't want you to run into trouble later, so don't forget the forward area needs to be open, with the sides extending beyond the cutout and into the bomb bay roof area ---- for the gun/mount to slide forward (partially over the bomb bay) for storage.

You're probably way ahead of me on this, but I just didn't want you to start working on the gun/mount and get blindsided with an "uh-oh!"

On the subject of gun/mount, have you decided of you're going with a "C" or "D" yet?

"C" used the "yoke" type mount for the single MG and the "D" used the "ring" type mount for the dual .50s at the radioroom and belly positions.

 

Grammar! I haven't worried about grammar since I graduated from High School!

When I was working, I had a vocabulary that would have burned an English teacher's ears ---- but my guys had no problem understanding what I was saying.

If you get your idea across, its proper grammar!

 

Keep up the fantastic work and thanks for sharing.

I'm sure posting updates and responding to our posts is a lot of extra work for you.

 

Terry

[brahman104]

This is a truly sweet build!!

 

Thanks very much!

 

JUST :wow:Awesome detail work!!!!!

Barry

 

 

Cheers Barry!

 

Craig

Completely blown away ... absolutely incredible work.

Keep 'em coming

Peter

 

Thank you very much Peter! How's that spit of yours coming along?

 

Wow ... I was impressed at the radio room opening, blown away by the light, and then I saw the bomb bay. I think you've exceeded your quota of awesomeness for the week.

 

Jim

 

Hahaha, thanks Jim! It took pretty much the entire weekend, but it had to be done and I'm pretty happy with where it's at. Most importantly I've finally got a solution to a problem that had been bothering me for a long time!

 

Amazing work here. The stringers and formers are simply awesome. Thanks for sharing this with us simple mortals.

Great work here.

 

Regards,

Troy.

 

My absolute pleasure Troy. Thank you kindly for looking in on the build. I'm glad you're enjoying it. I know I am!

 

WOW ! Metal, lamp?........Harv

 

Cheers Harv! I've got three lights to do in the bomb bay next and I still haven't figured out how I'm going to connect them all together yet!

[brahman104]

Craig,

 

That bomb bay is going to be just one of many highlights of an overall awesome model!

I don't see the "roughness" on any parts that you mentioned (the artist is his own worse critic)

Don't sweat it; I'm sure it's all going to blend together quite nicely by the time you're finished.

You going to add some LEDs?

Believe there was one incorporated into the front catwalk step and two overhead lights (at about 10 and 2 o'clock positions) mounted on the ribs toward the rear of the bomb bay.

 

I know you still have work to do on the radio compartment "racetrack" cutout structure.

I don't want you to run into trouble later, so don't forget the forward area needs to be open, with the sides extending beyond the cutout and into the bomb bay roof area ---- for the gun/mount to slide forward (partially over the bomb bay) for storage.

You're probably way ahead of me on this, but I just didn't want you to start working on the gun/mount and get blindsided with an "uh-oh!"

On the subject of gun/mount, have you decided of you're going with a "C" or "D" yet?

"C" used the "yoke" type mount for the single MG and the "D" used the "ring" type mount for the dual .50s at the radioroom and belly positions.

 

Grammar! I haven't worried about grammar since I graduated from High School!

When I was working, I had a vocabulary that would have burned an English teacher's ears ---- but my guys had no problem understanding what I was saying.

If you get your idea across, its proper grammar!

 

Keep up the fantastic work and thanks for sharing.

I'm sure posting updates and responding to our posts is a lot of extra work for you.

 

Terry

 

Terry,

 

I always wait in keen anticipation of your comments. As always they are to the point, timely and give excellent food for thought!

 

You bring up some very valid points.

 

Firstly, yes looking at what I have, there are 3 lights in the bomb bay which should light up the area quite nicely, so it looks like more soldering fun for me!

 

Secondly, as always you are 100% correct. I almost made the error of not having the area forward of the radio room open as I was almost going to use the HK bulkhead, which reaches all the way to the top. Luckily I did see it before I got too far into it and made a new one which you see is now the forward edge of the section. I've been studying the structure closely; it's a highly complex but beautifully engineered piece of metalworking the Boeing guys did on the original. You've certainly got to respect the talents of those guys back then, something I think we would struggle to do these days!

 

I do need to work out exactly where the gun tracks go before I get too much further though which brings me to....

 

Point three, excellent question! Until you mentioned it I hadn't really thought about it too much, I'd always liked the look of the dual guns and their mounting system looks really cool. Incidentally, I've been watching the 1943 movie "Air force" quite a lot as it has some excellent footage of these mounts in action.  

 

Having said that, there is virtue to going for the single mount, especially in the radio room, lest it obscure the view into the area....... of course I could always build it stowed, as I imagine it would be on the ground. I guess I'll have to make my mind up relatively soon, but I'll ponder on that note for just a little longer!

 

I've also been considering making one of those bomb bay tanks which seemed to be quite prevalent in the early forts up till the F. Yes it will obscure a large part of the detail I've just added, but it'd look cool with the tank on one side and a few bombs on the other don't you think?

 

Lots to think about, lots to do. Thank you for posting your comments (and everyone else too!), they are always appreciated. I'm always happy to respond as they provide documentation of thought processes and decisions that might not otherwise be obvious in the update posts.

 

Cheers!

 

Craig

[TKB]

Craig,

 

"Air force" ---- as inaccurate as it is, one of my favorites. Great flightline and takeoff shots.

Careful though, those interior scenes were shot in a Hollywood mock-up of a Y1B-17 for the movie "I Wanted Wings" and recycled for "Air Force" (I believe "Wake Island" also, as a PBY waist section).

Convincing, but not totally accurate.

EX: In the case of the radioroom gun; it's being fired through a early "blister type" roof opening.

EX: Some early Forts were modified to carry a fixed tail gun, but never anyone back there manning it.

EX: Nose compartment was a bit roomy; note the scene when the bombadier appears to climb a ladder into the cockpit!

 

BOMB BAY

A bomb bay tank would be a change of pace and interesting, but obscuring all that detail work you've put into it would be a shame.

How about if you went with a permanent bombload on one side and a removeable fuel tank on the other.

A couple of pins on the top of the tank and a couple of desceet nylon sockets on the roof might work, or maybe maganets.

It would give you the option of a "not what you see everyday" bomb bay load, yet all your detail work could be made available to view.

 

RADIOROOM

Guess the radioroom plexiglas hatch isn't an issue; either set in place or remove and place in the radioroom --- somewhere.

From what I understand it was oddly a "just put that anywhere" item.

Would think it would have a rack or clips to hold it securely during combat.

If the gun(s)s were in the firing location, I'd think the gun wieght would pull the receivers downward, so not that much of your detail work would be obscured (mostly the door to the waist section).

Even in the stowed position it would look better then just missing completly.

Would it take that much work to make the radioroom gun mount actually slide along the track slot?

Listen to me ---- nothing is that hard to do, when someone else iks doing the work!

 

Just curious, what are youur plans for display when done, or is this a "I'll worry about that when I have to" question?

 

I know you welcome comments, but I always feel like I'm highjacking your thread!

 

 

Terry

[brahman104]

G'day guys,

 

Not really much of an update this weekend as things are starting to get busy again. I did however make a start on shaping the left hand side of the forward fuselage to try and get the contours to look the same as the right. As it had been a while, I actually had to go back through my previous posts to see how I did it!

 

 

So with similar packings and fillings, the basic shape (including the flatter section around the windscreen) is starting to take shape. You'll of course notice the rather large gap between the two pieces. This should reduce a little more when I remove some more material from the interior, remembering some of the plastic here is up to almost 2mm thick. Inevitably I'm still going to end up with a gap, but I'll deal with that when the time comes, on the inside it'll be hidden by more soundproofing and the outside will be aluminium so no-one will ever know!

 

 

You can also see the difference in height between the top of the cockpit roof. The right hand side I believe is showing the effects of my not overly successful experiment with liquid sprue (operator error entirely... nothing wrong with the concept!) so what I'll probably end up doing is cutting the entire roof off up to the end of the last window, correcting both sides at the same time and detailing the overhead consoles/lights, then re-attaching it onto a properly formed windscreen. 

 

 

On the subject of the lower nose, you can see where the bottom doesn't exactly line up either. This will end up being a similar process to the cockpit roof I think, plus it will be almost impossible to fit the soundproofing from the nose cone area. My concept here is to remove the lower part of the nose about where the floor line would be, so that when I rejoin it, the line will appear naturally where it would be anyway. 

 

This all makes perfect sense in my head. Right now. Contents and colours of the next update may vary considerably!

 

Cheers 

 

Craig

Edited November 22, 2015 by brahman104