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HK B-17...C 11/2 progress resumes!


brahman104

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Craig,

 

All I can say is that the lengths you are wiling to go, as well as your patience are unbelievable! I have to admit, even with all the different methodologies you've incorporated into this build, I never expected a microscope! Those rivets are sharp!

 

Being your "first off" panels --- they aren't bad at all. Shame you have to put so much work into them to "live and learn," but unfortunately that goes with new territory, doesn't it? I'm sure your "re-dos" are going to look excellent.

 

Trust me, HK will not come out with a C/D version until your C is done --- so they can refer to all your work and duplicate your model! Believe me ... they are following this build as closely as the rest of us!

 

You are one dedicated modeler!

 

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On 9/26/2020 at 3:34 AM, patricksparks said:

Great learning curve !!! Awesome work !!!

Pat

 

Thanks Pat! Can't wait to see some more progress on your D model :)

 

On 9/26/2020 at 3:58 AM, TKB said:

Craig,

 

All I can say is that the lengths you are wiling to go, as well as your patience are unbelievable! I have to admit, even with all the different methodologies you've incorporated into this build, I never expected a microscope! Those rivets are sharp!

 

Being your "first off" panels --- they aren't bad at all. Shame you have to put so much work into them to "live and learn," but unfortunately that goes with new territory, doesn't it? I'm sure your "re-dos" are going to look excellent.

 

Trust me, HK will not come out with a C/D version until your C is done --- so they can refer to all your work and duplicate your model! Believe me ... they are following this build as closely as the rest of us!

 

You are one dedicated modeler!

 

 

Thanks Terry! It is true, but as we've discussed many times before, half the fun for me is the R&D! As long as I learn something from each time it goes wrong, it wasn't wasted right? ;) Yeah the rivets are a lot of work, but the results are worth it, regardless of how long it takes me to get it done. Hopefully as I refine the process, the speed will also improve.

 

23 hours ago, RadBaron said:

thats some truly remarkable work, Craig! Awesome stuff :D

 

Thanks mate!

 

22 hours ago, LSP_Kevin said:

Just when I think this build can't get any more epic! Fantastic work, Craig.

 

Kev

 

Cheers Kev! You know me, I love to challenge myself :)

 

18 hours ago, adameliclem said:

My gob is well and truly smacked, yet again. Great thought and artistry at work.

 

Adam

 

Thanks very much Adam! Really appreciate your comments.

 

Having developed a plan for the way forward I decided to attack the entire inner-aft wing in one go (template-wise). This means that I should be able to ensure that all panels are the right size and shape to match up to each other as well as all the rivet lines matching from panel to panel. To get this much masking tape on to a very large area was one challenge, trying to get it off the wing and onto a flat surface without any creeping of the tape sections was quite definitely another! A very careful and delicate process not to rush, but this is the result...

 

12r1cJC.jpg

 

As you can see the piece is roughly 10 inches long, rather tricky when you only have two hands!!! :)

 

Anyway, off to Rhino to make the magic happen....

 

Cheers,

 

Craig

 

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Craig, I think there might be ways to mitigate the bulges the beading tool leaves around individual rivets. I've worked a lot with MDF as a painter, and it it more susceptible to denting than many woods. The lithoplate might deform less if if were backed by a denser material, with enough "give" to allow for the embossing. Another option might be to coat the MDF frame you have with products that would harden it; my go-to product for sealing and hardening MDF is a shellac-based primer.

 

Adam

 

 

 

 

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On 9/27/2020 at 1:26 PM, adameliclem said:

Craig, I think there might be ways to mitigate the bulges the beading tool leaves around individual rivets. I've worked a lot with MDF as a painter, and it it more susceptible to denting than many woods. The lithoplate might deform less if if were backed by a denser material, with enough "give" to allow for the embossing. Another option might be to coat the MDF frame you have with products that would harden it; my go-to product for sealing and hardening MDF is a shellac-based primer.

 

Adam

 

 

 

 

Hi Adam,

 

Thanks very much for your suggestion. I probably didn't elaborate well enough about the process here. The Curio is not powerful enough to deepen each rivet to the extent I need as it is, backing the litho with something even as hard as MDF only just marks the position of each rivet enough for me to see where they are. I've actually gone to a softer backing material to try and deepen the initial rivet punches the machine makes, but I still have to go over each one to further deepen them. Unfortunately this process means that I then have to push back the surrounding area around each rivet to make it stand out. The metal sheet will deform regardless as I'm putting several hundred "dents" into the metal. 

 

Not sure if that makes sense?

 

Thanks for the suggestion though! Always appreciate comment and ideas as quite often I'll take the hard/inefficient way! ;)

 

Cheers,

 

Craig

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  • 2 weeks later...

If at first (or on the 6th attempt) you don't succeed, try again!

 

Much better success with the "total" section template this time! Pretty much everything worked as I'd panned, until I cut the #7 panel a little too short when separating from the rest of the litho sheet. What should have been an easy fix turned into a mini nightmare where I can only imagine that the drawing for that panel somehow got corrupted when I oriented it a different way to save space on the sheet. Just when you think you've nailed a program, it throws a curve ball at you!

 

mHdIPcp.jpg

 

Anyone spot the problem?  This happened 4 times before I deleted the drawing and drew it again. Worse, it would look fine on the program, and would never be "off" by a predictable amount!!! :BANGHEAD2:

 

Anyway, I finally got it sorted and with everything looking good it was time to take that big step of permanent application. Of course, with the first panel being the inner aft trailing edge, getting everything lined up perfectly was critical, and it happened to be the longest, thinnest panel of the pretty much the entire plane, at about 10 inches long! With all the deformation from the riveting process it had a bit of a longitudinal bow which was quite challenging to remove. Taking more than a few leaves from Peter's book, I applied a tape "hinge" along the forward side so I only had to flip it over once the glue was ready.

 

I also left enough to allow me to fold and end over the trailing edge. First one's always the hardest!!!!

 

fz8GipO.jpg

zdndnoH.jpg

yb7S0Sb.jpg

 

So far so good!!!! :punk:

 

Excited about the first panel down, with another few hours I had some more. Compare these with my first panels and you'll see the rivet lines actually run straight!!!!! :)

RrV8kRL.jpg

lznEDr8.jpg

x3CToOF.jpg

 

Turns out this is pretty difficult to photograph well, but if you look closely, you'll se that each panel overlaps the previous towards the rear of the wing. 

 

Still lots of clean up to do, and later polishing, but that's more or less the finish on the whole thing (in 20 - 40 years time!!!)

 

I'm now up to good old panel #7, the sooner this one is down and out of my life the better!!:rofl: What's going on with the glossy surface you may ask? Well kiddies let this be a lesson for you...... Don't try to remove contact cement reside on bare plastic using the thinner. :whistle: I know, it should've been obvious right? Things you do in the heat of the moment; luckily the evidence is getting hidden by litho!!!!

 

We are finally in the skinning business!!!

 

Cheers,

 

Craig

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  • brahman104 changed the title to HK B-17...C 9/10 Showing some skin!!!!
5 minutes ago, Out2gtcha said:

Really great work Craig!  This is going to be a real show stopper when you are done. What type of thinner did that, lacquer?  I seem to have good luck removing contact cement and other sicky glues w/91% alcohol. 

Thanks Brian! Yeah I'm really happy with it so far. I've learnt a lot already.... you can only learn so much from others before you have to try things yourself. 

 

Totally agreed that I should have used isopropyl and will from now on, but I used the proprietry solvent based thinner for the contact cement as idiot me thought "seeing it does such a good job of cleaning the brush off, it should work well for removing it off the plastic too!" soooo wrong!!!!

 

At least the damage is not really a problem, I just used up another of my modelling lives in the process! (I am very much in debt of that account now!).

 

Thanks for the advice as always! :)

 

Craig

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9 hours ago, brahman104 said:

Thanks Brian! Yeah I'm really happy with it so far. I've learnt a lot already.... you can only learn so much from others before you have to try things yourself. 

 

Totally agreed that I should have used isopropyl and will from now on, but I used the proprietry solvent based thinner for the contact cement as idiot me thought "seeing it does such a good job of cleaning the brush off, it should work well for removing it off the plastic too!" soooo wrong!!!!

 

At least the damage is not really a problem, I just used up another of my modelling lives in the process! (I am very much in debt of that account now!).

 

Thanks for the advice as always! :)

 

Craig

Great stuff Craig !!!

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5 hours ago, JayW said:

The ultimate B-17 project.  I see your story is approaching six years old!  Do you have an ECD?

 

 

Hahaha! Great question Jay, I wish I did! Just the skinning process alone is going to blow out any completion date by a considerable amount; I'd like to say I do, but I feel it would become a chore if I did. My progress and time and the bench is very ad hoc, so I just do what I can, when I can. Once I finish this wing I'd like to resume work on the fuselage so I can get it sealed up and start the skinning on that too. 

 

One thing's for sure, I never anticipated it taking me as long as it has already!!! :)

 

Craig

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