HK B-17...C 5/4 sweating the metal

[brahman104]

Thank you very much for all the kind words and encouragement Gentlemen! I really appreciate all the feedback too guys... it certainly keeps me going on a rather long and involved project such as this one is

 

I've been looking again at all the photos of I have of the windscreen area. While I am close, I think I could be closer still. I'm not going to trash what I've already done as I'm pretty happy with it, but I'd like to play around with a few dimensions and angles and build another. This way I'll be able to compare the two and with your help, decide which is the best "fit" for the model. The brass is certainly the best material for something like this; at allows you to be scale thin, yet not distort when you cut shapes out of it and can be filed to hone the overall shape. 

 

I'm still looking at how best I make make an operating sliding window. Due to the size of the tracks it is a fiddly and precise job. I've played around with a few ways to attack the thing but none of them are really sufficient for what I am trying to achieve here. 

 

I'll keep you guys posted on what I've been playing with soon hopefully!

 

In the mean time, thanks again for looking and your comments

 

Cheers,

 

Craig

[Ripaman]

Just love the brass work Craig

 

 

 

Regards

Richard

[brahman104]

Thanks Richard! Plenty more brass to be included yet. Every time I work with it I find more and more ways to include it Pretty sure it's all your fault.....

 

How's that big cat going?

 

Craig

[brahman104]

Hi gang,

 

Thank you all for the very positive comments around the shape of the cockpit area. I haven't had a great deal of time at the bench lately, but I've been looking more and more at the shape and there's something that to my eye is still not quite right.

 

Terry was kind enough to forward me on an excellent photo of what appears to be an original boeing drawing of the D model fuselage. The photo unfortunately only shows the forward fuselage, but it was enough to get me thinking about a plan....

 

At this stage in the build I still have an opportunity to make some major corrections to the front end. After a lot of stuffing around between inkscape and rhino3D, I managed to import the side view, in scale, and am now going to use it as a basis to draw up a whole new forward fuselage. With this drawing, I feel that the relationship between the nose contours and the size of the cockpit windows will be much clearer and cleaner, and it allows me to "massage" the overall piece to (hopefully) blend in to the existing HK parts. 

 

Here's what I've got to start with......

 

 

The beauty of this is that I don't have to commit to cutting what I've already done until I'm happy with what the printer will provide me. For those of you following the B-17F thread in LSP discussion, if it comes out that they don't address the roundness of the fuselage, this will be the path I will also choose to modify mine (yes I will be getting one or two regardless). If it works and I can make it simple enough, then I will be happy to make sets for anyone that may be interested in doing the same, but that's a whole new project

 

The top view was taken from the warpaint series drawings by Ian Huntley and as you can see, there are some discrepancies with dimensions. I am inclined to believe the more detailed drawing, so that will be my primary reference. I may even delete the top view so I don't get confused.

 

Anyway, just thought I'd put in a quick update of where I'm at and where this is going. Far, far, far from the shelf of doom

 

Cheers,

 

Craig

 

 

[petrov27]

Sounds like a great idea - very interested to see what you come up with in Rhino 

 

Regardless the scratch work you have done already is amazing...

[brahman104]

Thanks mate,

 

I know hindsight is always a wonderful thing, but if I knew then what I do now, this I feel is definitely the way forward. But I guess like anything it comes down to what you have available at the time. For me this is all about pushing the limits of what I can do and learn new skills along the way.

 

There's still plenty of room for old school scratch building, but hopefully I can make this work

 

Craig

[ClumsyDude]

Craig, I love that you can't rest until it looks right. Rock on, I'm inspired by your passion and dedication.

 

Jim

Edited February 3, 2016 by ClumsyDude

[stevegallacci]

For scale nit-pickery, your existing cockpit windows are proportionally too high, even though they are beautifully done. Just did a quick dividers comparison of the height versus other features on the same visual plain (to avoid perspective issues) and the assembly is high. And not just because it is not set enough into the fuselage, which it would still need to be done. There is a bit of "squint" to the front windscreen that is lost as well. I am still loving what you've done, and only mention this in that it looks like you are not going to try and just let it pass.

[brahman104]

Hi Steve,

 

Glad you said it mate! Totally agree.. Through my eyes they were excessively high. I feel that this was due to the original shape of my 3D parts and the action of trying to mesh them with the HK bits. The height of the windows became very apparent when I saw the excellent drawing I'm working off now, and that's exactly why I've decided to have another crack at the title. I totally concur with your point about the size of the windscreen in relation to the rest of the side windows, and this will hopefully address that too. Even after placing a few lines down, I feel it's starting to look better already! 

 

I appreciate your comments mate, cheers

 

Craig

[brahman104]

Craig, I love that you can't rest until it looks right. Rock on, I'm inspired by your passion and dedication.

 

Jim

 

Thanks Jim,

 

At the end of the day one of the primary goals of this build was to address the front end issues. Yes, it would have still looked like a B-17 but it would've always annoyed me. If I get this right, now, the rest of the build should be pretty easy!

 

Hopefully there's some good things to come 

 

Craig

[brahman104]

And so in not a great deal of time this morning, I have some nice cross sections built up from the plan. The widths have been derived so that the finished pieces should line up pretty closely with the HK centre section. It seems I was pretty close with the shape of the sta #1 bulkhead, so I took measurements off my original printed nose. 

 

The big differences are that this time, obviously my references are much better, my knowledge of rhino is improved and I'm redoing the fuselage shape from the rear of the cockpit (sta #4) forward. This should remove all the issues with sizing of cockpit windows and the like, fingers crossed

 

 

As you can see sta #3 has a very obvious flat spot. Working from the plans it did end up being about 4 or so mm, as Hubert mentioned for those of you following the F model discussion

 

More to follow 

 

Craig

[misha71]

most interesting build

[TKB]

Craig,

 

I have no concept of how "electronic technology" works or how it can be applied.

Yet, I'm really impressed that you are putting it to use for an "old fashion" hobby.

 

Again, as I keep saying, there seems to be no end to your multi-skills and talents and I can only commend you again for the lengths you are willing to go to in order to "get it right."

 

I just read through the discussion on the forthcoming HK B-17F.

Thank God it was locked down ---- and I am NOT trying to restart it on your thread!

What I find interesting, is that after all these years, nobody is in an uproar everytime Hasegawa reissues thier B-17F or G without correcting the shape of the windshield panels or the odd shaped Cheyenne tail turret. I don't recall threats of boycotting the Acadamy B-17 family over the glaring wing dihedral error, or Italeri being taken to task for re-popping the Academy B-17C/D as a Fortress Mk I without any correction to the original error.

 

What everyone needs to do is read and follow you with this build. It's a perfect example of:

• If you can't live with a error ----- fix it!
• If the kit is not the exact version you want ---- convert it!
• If you want it as close to perfect as possible ---- then keep at it and don't settle for less then you want!
• Don't worry about your own mistakes --- if you did it once you can do it again and again until you're satisfied!
• If you don't feel you have the skills --- develop them; it's your gain!

There's plenty more that could be added, but I think the point I'm making is pretty clear.

 

That's fine if someone doesn't want to get that involved with a model and wants to simply build out of box, BUT then you have to accept what comes in that box.

 

 

Keep doing what you're doing, Craig --- YOUR WAY!

[brahman104]

Thanks guys!

 

The more I play with this the more I feel this "re-visit" is definitely worth it. I'm still playing around with the top shape of the sta #3 bulkhead, as I believe this is the linchpin to the whole show. 

 

The beauty of Rhino, or really any other CAD program for that matter, is that you only have to come up with a few contours and the computer will do its best to fill the area in between. Every now and then it does something way off and unexpected, but for the most part it does a pretty good job. 

 

My favourite function of all is the "mirror." This way you can put all your effort into one side, once, and know it will be fully and exactly replicated on the other in about 0.0005 of a second. This of course, only works if you have a symmetrical object

 

Anyway, I thought I'd show you what I've got so far. Unlike last time, I'm planning on putting in (read remove) all the windows, entry door etc, or at least making them thinner so they can be removed easily later on. Have a look, particularly around the windscreen area and see what you think. The very outboard corner still needs some tweaking as there is a small gap, but overall I think the shape is reasonably good. Once I put the windows in it will make things a lot clearer but hopefully you can get a feel for what I've done so far....

 

 

 

 

 

Due to the screen shots being taken in perspective, the overall effect may look a little "skewed" too, but if you close your eyes, you might just be able to see a B-17

 

More to come,

 

Craig

[scvrobeson]

That's attention to detail.  Already built a brand new nose, and CADing up another one with even more accuracy in it. Awesome!

 

 

 

 

Matt