Another late bf 109 question :)

[Hardcore]

Anders Hjortsberg have a new profile up. Looking around for more photos i found this gem

 

Gem, as in 'intriguing' that is.

It is not often you get a look at both the top of the Wings, and underside of the tailplanes.

The question here is about colors.

I think aelirons and elevators are RLM 76. Probably wingtips too. This is the proscribed color for wooden and fabric covered surfaces. I figured the aelirons were delivered in rlm 76, and got the topside painted at the assembly when it was clear what the scheme was.

The stabilisator is dark. Very strange. Should have been either metal finish, or rlm 76.

 

The fin and rudder appear to be the same color, which seem NOT to be that of the fuselage. Yellow? I can't recall any late bf 109 were the fin, too, was yellow. I think it could be

Rlm 76.

 

Next there seems to be a lighter color under fuselage. On photos this area is usually very shaded making it difficult to interpret.

 

A close look around the balkencreuz suggest the fuselage was not mono color.

 

Thoughts!

Edited October 28, 2014 by Hardcore

[mywifehatesmodels]

Personally, I think the odd angles (seeing both the underside of the horizontal stabs, as well as the top of the wings) is also why the light/glare can play tricks with one's eyes in this photo. In particular, the ailerons and wingtips. I don't think they're RLM 76, but more than likely 75 or 82. Hard to say for sure, of course. I do believe the bottom of the elevator is a much lighter color, or perhaps it's 76 and the bottom of the stabilizer is a darker color for some reason? But, again, the angles and direction of the sun could be playing tricks with the camera/film, too. That IS a very interesting photo, for sure!

 

John

[Hardcore]

I am not sure but the stabilizer could be a portside one that was flipped and used as replacement or substitute.Thus it could be Rlm 76 on the top, and green bottom!

[Thomas Lund]

I dont think the aileron is 76, it is merely a matter of lighting. Also - not sure though - I dont think the ailerons could be swapped left-right on the 109, one side has the actuator bump so...

 

Wing tip could be light also, but it seems to have a hard edge so another color is a possibility, not necessarily 76. Wing tip is not fabric covered so 76 is not a fallback to that

 

Bottom of elevator is 76 as it should be, but the horizontal stabilizer bottom color is strange - again it could be a trick of light but it IS indeed very far from 76

 

While the cowl and gun cover seems to be one color, the bit immediately behind, under the gun cover - "fixed part of fuselage" - seems to be the same color as the rear fuselage

[Hardcore]

It seems like there was a light overcast, though. The shadows are weak and the contrast low.

[sluggo]

The following is opinion and in no way based on fact. 

 

This aircraft W.Nr. 151965 which is quite close to the W.Nr. in question is in my opinion pretty spot on to your plane. Depending on the last digit of the plane in question, these two planes could be as little as 6 units apart and quite possibly built at the same time.

 

I think the vertical stab is 76 and just never got mottled. Changed my mind, I think it's 82 as is the wingtip. If you look at other crafts in this W.Nr. range they vary wildly between 76/mottling and solid 82 or 83. 

 

 

 

I believe the fuselage band to be blue and white green/white and the number and bar to be yellow.

 

I seen a profile somewhere that Anders did and think he nailed a sister to the plane in question. I'll try to find it.

 

 

I think this is the aircraft in the photo linked below below Taken at the same field apparently by the same photographer as the pic in the original post.

http://I think this is the aircraft in this photo

 

 

 

If you look at Barracuda's painting instructions for craft of this range, I think you'll agree that the hard edged wingtip color difference is explained by the drawing.

Edited October 29, 2014 by sluggo

[Hardcore]

I much appreciate your input, Sluggo!

It is hard to discern the cammo pattern on the wings, but I can see it now with the aid of Anders instructions. Thanks!

 

(I am not buying the metal finished belly without photographic evidence though😸)

[fastzx]

http://youtu.be/9_V7mY2ubVw

[Hardcore]

This photo suggest the dark color under the evelator could be the elusive "RLM84"

 

 

Assuming no flash, shade and bright background it would probably be quite dark.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Hardcore

[stevegallacci]

A touch more speculation on the colors. Could the underside of the tail plane be unpainted red-brown for a wooden unit? The fuselage just might be two-tone, there is a slight color break on the panel just in front ot the windscreen too.  I'd WAG the wing tip and such in RLM75. Given the inconsistancy of very late war colors, the various elements of the upper surfaces and fin and rudder may be a mix of all the 80 series.

[Cpt_Farrel]

The undersurfaces of the fuselage, i.e. the lower engine cowling and rear fuselage both have the top colour(s) taken all the way around to eliminate the use of 76. So the stabilisers are likely in the same colour too. The elevator might be regular 76.

 

The lower panel between the wings is very difficult to determine on these aircraft, there's not a single known photo that shows it clearly. Being part of the fuselage, RLM 81 would seem logical but logic is dangerous when it comes to late war luftwaffe. :-)

Edited November 17, 2014 by Cpt_Farrel

[Cpt_Farrel]

As 83 was mentioned, remember the new document found by Michael Ullmann describing RLM 83 as dark blue. So we're down to variants of 81 and 82. Less numbers but just as many shades...

 

Besides, for those still believing in dark green 83, according to Jörg Meincke, documents from the Erla factory shows no use of RLM 83 anyway. Jörg is keeping his documents tight though so he has unfortunately not divulged which colours actually were used...

[Hardcore]

" eliminate the use of 76"

true, this would be a logical step after discontinue painting the underside or the Wings. To me is unclear what the savings would be however. Maybe the blue-grey used rarer materials than the greens.

[mhorina]

Or the assembly point may have run out of '76'.

    Mike Horina

[mattlow]

As Luftwaffe aircraft spent most of their time 'hiding' in or on the edge of forests or under camo netting, the darker colour would have the benefit of increasing the concealment of the aircraft. We already know in some cases that upper surface colours were carried over under the wings of FW 190s - so wrapping around the fuselage makes total sense.

 

It's also doubtful that the Luftwaffe was doing anything at altitude by this stage. So dark colours on the undersides would offer a good deal of concealment for low flying aircraft from those flying at higher altitudes. This wasn't lost on the US Airforce when the European 'Lizard' schemes came in - very similar to a wrap around late war Luftwaffe camo.

 

Of course, until someone comes up with an official dictat, we may never know why some of these schemes appeared. Just rejoice in the interesting variety..

 

Matt