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R-2800 nose casing : which one for a P-47?


Zero77

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Hi,

 

I'm just starting a P-47, and i have the choice between the B and C series nose casing. But i dont know which one is the most coherent for a P-47. I'd say the B, as i can see most pictures of P-47 have this feature, but some also show a C nose casing (late versions?).

 

So is there any clue to know which one would match, maybe regarding the serial number of the aircraft or block number?

 

THank you in advance, guys !

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Hi Zero, It depended ( at least from the factory) what the type and block number was for example as to what factory installed power plant the aircraft was delivered with. A  "D" model razorback or early bubble top would use the older style and could have either shape Magnetos on the top of the crank case front. The Later P-47M's and N's had the one that was more shaped like a flat bottomed pot and has all the bolt head castings. These "typically" had the round magnetos next to the prop governor ( the box shaped thing in the middle on top) If you can find pictures of the aircraft you are modeling from the front looking into the cowling that's always helpful. Engine changes in the field meant that one month a Jug could be flying with one type of magneto arrangement, and after an engine change they could be different, There were also variations in the field concerning prop types. I have seen the same plane in two different time periods in pictures use two different style props, so check photos if possible. 

If you need info for a specific Aircraft, Post the serial number of the one you're going to do. I can point you in the right direction  :)

 Hope this helps,

 Paul 

Edited by av8shunmodels
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I think it's safe to say that during the War (excluding experimentals in the States)  an, all models (G included) except for the M, and N series used the "B" crankcase. Freeman's  and Bodie's Books cover these issues extensively and I highly recommend investing in them. They will pay off tenfold. Research research research!!!! Have fun!!! Seversky/ Republic made some of the most important contributions to the US' history of military aviation.

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there were at least 2 versions of magnetos on this gearbox.

check here http://p47.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=127149

 

You can get  the exact P-47 version from the serial no.

 

P-47C

41-6066 - 6123 Republic P-47C-RE Thunderbolt
41-6124 - 6177 Republic P-47C-1-RE Thunderbolt
41-6178 - 6305 Republic P-47C-2-RE Thunderbolt
41-6306 - 6667 Republic P-47C-5-RE Thunderbolt

P-47D

42-7853 - 7957 Republic P-47D-1-RE Thunderbolt
42-7958 - 8402 Republic P-47D-2-RE Thunderbolt
42-8403 - 8702 Republic P-47D-5-RE Thunderbolt
42-22250 - 22363 Republic P-47D-1-RA Thunderbolt
42-22364 - 22563 Republic P-47D-2-RA Thunderbolt
42-22564 - 22663 Republic P-47D-3-RA Thunderbolt
42-22664 - 22863 Republic P-47D-4-RA Thunderbolt
42-22864 - 23113 Republic P-47D-11-RA Thunderbolt
42-23114 - 23142 Republic P-47D-16-RA Thunderbolt
42-23143 - 23299 Republic P-47D-15-RA Thunderbolt
42-25274 - 25322 Republic P-47D-20-RE Thunderbolt
42-25323 - 25538 Republic P-47D-21-RE Thunderbolt
42-25539 - 26388 Republic P-47D-22-RE Thunderbolt
42-26389 - 26773 Republic P-47D-25-RE Thunderbolt
42-26774 - 27388 Republic P-47D-27-RE Thunderbolt
42-27389 - 28188 Republic P-47D-23-RA Thunderbolt
42-28189 - 28438 Republic P-47D-26-RA Thunderbolt
42-28439 - 29466 Republic P-47D-28-RA Thunderbolt
42-74615 - 74964 Republic P-47D-6-RE Thunderbolt
42-74965 - 75214 Republic P-47D-10-RE Thunderbolt
42-75215 - 75614 Republic P-47D-11-RE Thunderbolt
42-75615 - 75864 Republic P-47D-15-RE Thunderbolt
42-75865 - 76118 Republic P-47D-16-RE Thunderbolt
42-76119 - 76364 Republic P-47D-15-RE Thunderbolt
42-76365 - 76614 Republic P-47D-20-RE Thunderbolt
43-25254 - 25440 Republic P-47D-20-RA Thunderbolt
43-25441 - 25664 Republic P-47D-21-RA Thunderbolt
43-25665 - 25753 Republic P-47D-23-RA Thunderbolt
44-19558 - 20307 Republic P-47D-28-RE Thunderbolt
44-20308 - 21107 Republic P-47D-30-RE Thunderbolt
44-32668 - 33867 Republic P-47D-30-RA Thunderbolt
44-89684 - 90283 Republic P-47D-30-RA Thunderbolt
44-90284 - 90483 Republic P-47D-40-RA Thunderbolt
45-49090 - 49554 Republic P-47D-40-RA Thunderbolt

Serials of Curtiss built P-47Gs

42-24920 - 24939 Curtiss P-47G-CU Thunderbolt
42-24940 - 24979 Curtiss P-47G-1-CU Thunderbolt
42-24980 - 25039 Curtiss P-47G-5-CU Thunderbolt
42-25040 - 25119 Curtiss P-47G-10-CU Thunderbolt
42-25120 - 25273 Curtiss P-47G-15-CU Thunderbolt

P-47M

42-27385 - 27388 YP-47M
44-21108 - 21237 P-47M-1-RE

P-47Ns

44-87784 - 88333 P-47N-1-RE
44-88334 - 88883 P-47N-5-RE
44-88884 - 89083 P-47N-15-RE
44-89084 - 89283 P-47N-20-RE
44-89284 - 89450 P-47N-25-RE
45-49975 - 50123 P-47N-20-RA

 N-2 = field modified N-1 (rocket launchers added)

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Thank you Jan.

Yes i've seen that there is 2 versions of the magnetos for this gearbox, a rouded one and a flater one on the bottom, but the trumpeter kit only provide the more rounded version.

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Hi,

 

I'm just starting a P-47, and i have the choice between the B and C series nose casing. But i dont know which one is the most coherent for a P-47. I'd say the B, as i can see most pictures of P-47 have this feature, but some also show a C nose casing (late versions?).

 

So is there any clue to know which one would match, maybe regarding the serial number of the aircraft or block number?

 

THank you in advance, guys !

 

Hello Zero77,

 

I was a little apprehensive about adding an additional post to this discussion as the previous posters (including a subsequent post by you) have answered the question.  However, in the interests of clarity I will reiterate that all production P-47D's used the R-2800 B series engine.  And, as additionally pointed out above, only the P-47M and the P-47N used the C series engine. 

 

If you're building a bubbletop P-47D (-25 and later block number) the GE "turtleback" magneto's are correct for the R-2800-59, B series engine (pictured below).  If you're building the Razorback then you'll want the bendix-scintilla magnetos for the B series R-2800's that came equipped in the Razorbacks.  You did not mention which kit you were building so I'm attempting to cover all the possible options. 

 

R-2800withGEIgnitionSystem_View_2.jpg

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I am now building a P-47D block 40 (or field updated, but she has the dorsal fin), but i also have a D razorback and a N in the stash, so your informations are very useful for later.

 

Here is my engine, the magnetos seems to be coherent for that version. But the spark plug distribution ring is different that in your picture (i've seen at least 2 variants on pictures, but i dont know from which version do they come). It still need a bit of weathering.

 

 

20140310_235436_zps6e633581.jpg

20140310_235427_zps557abf83.jpg

Edited by Zero77
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Nice engine.  The ignition harness you're using is the tube type that is pressurized with air and is similar to the one shown in the photo above.  I believe it's a different color than what you've rendered but no big deal there.  The other ignition harness you've probably seen is what's called the cast version.  This is a rectangle cross section ignition harness that has dielectric material inside and is sealed preventing flashover at high altitudes.    The "turtleback" magneto's of the GE ignition system  contain both magneto and distributor in each unit and should be painted black.  The rectangular object between the magneto/distributors should not be there as it is the (representation of) Bendix-Scintilla DF18RN dual magneto and is not used with the GE ignition system.  Notice on the photo above in my post that there is a blanking plate between the GE mag/distributors.  The DF18RN (or LN) magneto would be used on the earlier P-47D's (razorback) or on the P-47M & N models.  One other item that is missing from your engine is the prop governor which mounts on a pad immediately in front of and in between the two GE mag/distributors.   In the photo above, you can see the little blanking plate for the prop governor in front of the dual magneto blanking plate. 

 

The R-2800 was built by a great many companies during the war years and different manufacturers made different versions of the 2800.  I have the book by Graham White on the 2800 so if you have some further questions on the engine, I can certainly look up the answers for you if needed.  Looking forward to seeing your jug.  If you have a build thread going, please post a link, I'd love to see it.

Edited by Juggernut
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Thanks !

 

Here is the picture i used as a reference :

450px-Pratt_%26_Whitney_R-2800_Engine_1.

 

The ignition ring supplied by trumpeter is the same, but i dont know if it is coherent with the turtelback magnetos, as the ones in the picture are the flat top ones. Never mind, i will try to detail the engine as much as i can, but if some parts are not totally accurate, too bad i wont be upset.

 

 

At the moment, i have not started a build thread (it's been 2 or 3 builds i havent, because i am too lazy !), but i could start one for this jug.

Edited by Zero77
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The engine in the photo you've posted above is captioned as an R-2800-21.  The R-2800-21 was used on the early P-47D series (razorback) through P-47D-6-RE.  After that, the engine was changed on the production lines to the R-2800-63 for P-47D-10 RE/RA to P-47D-16 RE/RA (Farmingdale and Evansville respectively).  After that, the remainder of the P-47D series (except the experimental ones) used the R-2800-59.  Since you're building a P-47D-40, the photo you posted above is not entirely representative of the engine installed in that block P-47D.  The engine would look like the one I posted in my first post above.  Again, it's not a big issue and not many will recognize the nuances associated with the differences between the engines. 

 

I hope you do start a build thread.  It just might inspire me to start another jug... maybe even take a stab and building a P-47M-1-RE.

 

REF: White, Graham, 2001.  R-2800. Pratt & Whitney's Dependable Masterpiece.  SAE Publishing, Warrendale, PA.

Edited by Juggernut
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  • 6 years later...

@Juggernut

 

Resurrecting this thread as I am trying to dientange myself from the sticky web that is the R2800 lol!

 

Photucket has 'claimed' the pic to which you are referring so any chance you can post it again / another?

 

I am make a P-47 D 'Jeanie' which I think therefore should have the GE magnetos as shown above but I want to know whether i should chop off the rectangular item between them?

 

I am building the Trumpeter kit, and happy to lop it off if required, but would like a clear view of what the void / what is left looks like?

 

Any help much appreciated

 

Thanks

 

Nick

Edited by nmayhew
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P-47D Razorback or bubbletop?

 

If you're building a bubbletop, then  you'll want this version of the R-2800:

 

RssMIhj.jpg

 

Notice there is no dual magneto between the GE ignition turtlebacks...it's not needed and in this case is replaced by a blanking plate.  the black protuberance that exists between the GE magnetos in the above image, is the prop governor.

 

If you're building a razorback, the question becomes a little tougher and to know which engine was fitted, we'll need the serial number.

Edited by Juggernut
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