Revell P-51 B

[Jack]

Jerry, i'm sorry to have started such a hard controversy in your own perception on your product.

Don't get me wrong, at the time you introduced your P51B,  i myself was really thrilled by having your kit available to be built, especially as i'm a real mustang "nut", and i must admit that i was a bit put "off guard" by seeing the end result at my doorstep...

I recognized your effort to put as much as possible into your goal to have the ultimate Mustang "B" model on the market, and it was, i really do admit on that, but even at that time i didn't really see any real difference in respect to the Revell Stang (which was the only available B version at that time ofcourse) and later on i kept on searching to have a good "matrix" to keep on working from.

I do appreciate all you've done to have this kit come to fruition, i wish i had the zeal to do it, so don't get me wrong: your P51B is a masterpiece by itself, but maybe i just couldn't build it the way i would have liked.

I'm really sorry if i offended you by commenting on your P51B.

 

yours,

Jack.

[D.B. Andrus]

Jack

 

Have you seen Charles Neely's drawings?  There available through him on the P-51 SIG. Highly recommend you take a look, if you haven't already.

 

Best Regards,

 

D.B.

[xmh53wrench]

No offense to anyone here, and certainly not diminishing all the effort that JR put into his resin P-51B, I personally would love to see one, and certainly own one.

But, having said that, I would love to see just a new resin engine cowling (that would fit over the existing engine and structure, and front half of the spinner.....that would satisfy me and my on going love affair/lust for the Revellstang.  (oh and just cranking out the Revell D prop in resin might be an easy fix for the prop)....

 

 OK,OK,OK, the list could go on, at least the engine cowling

 

....I think I made your point though JR, at least I hope so.

[Derek B]

Nice to see that things are being kept very civil here

 

The only reason I have not dived into the hole lefy by Jerry's superb P-51B (allbeit temporarily) is because the soothsayers have examined many entrails and predicted that someone may well produce a new P-51B at some future point in time (I have no idea who or when or even if it is true).

 

A good kit will always be a good kit and stand the test of time well; I put Jerry's P-51B in that category. I can identify with the amount of personal passion that would have gone into producing such a kit. The subtleties are such that at a casual glance, they may appear to be no more than an 'improvement' over an existing older and well established kit, but that would only superficial at best. Once you start really looking at the shapes, curves and little details against photographs it becomes immediately obvious that some serious homework (and correction) has been carried out here. 

 

I have no idea what kit Jerry may have used as the basis for his kit (it may well have been the old Revell kit, or the Hasegawa P-51D, or more than likely parts from both kits), but that is all they would be - a basis or blank canvas to work with (I am doing exactly the same with my Saab Gripen kit by using the existing Revell kit as a starting point).

 

I am delighted that Jack had made his apologies to Jerry and it sounds like he may have been influenced by previews or opinions of some of Jerry's previous work somewhere and therefore am slightly disappointed that Jerry's kit did not quite match up to Jack's perceptions for whatever reason. However, it is clear that Jack equally shares a passion for Mustangs and will therefore know what he wants from a kit.

 

I greatly appreciate the maturity and friendship shown by both gents here - well done Sirs.

 

Derek

Edited January 29, 2014 by Derek B

[JRutman]

Thanks guys,for weighing in here. I appreciate all opinions to be sure,even the bad ones.

  I still don't get how you could say,Jack,that you saw no big improvement over the revel kit when you received my kit?  I know,that over 10 years ago my building abilities were not as good as they are now but I can safely say every inch of that kit was done over,with few exceptions. All of the concerns that modelers voiced to me at the time were dealt with in my kit and then improved upon every time I had to replace a worn out mold culminating in a fuselage fuel tank that has gotten praise on the P51SIG as the most accurate anyone has seen to this day(yes,even with the new tamiya tank). And that was just one part. I was very diligent in my search for improvements as I was was with my line of P-47 kits and parts and my FW190 series,Hs129,etc etc.

 My kit had a completely new cowl area and spinner,re shaped windscreen and spine and corrected greenhouse rear window shape,complete new cockpit,metal landing gear,true detail resin wheels,two vacuform canopies,airfoil shape on the wings,landing light,rear wing spar in the wheelwells. I could go on and on. So I am left wondering still,how all of this could be left un noticed by you? Which kit were you looking at?

 I normally would not bother to defend myself as I have a very low opinion of myself but this just seems to me to be an attempt to re-write history.

J

[Rick Griewski]

Wow!  This thread really does speak to why I so appreciate the civil exchanges within LSP site.  Exchange of words driven by our passions for this hobby can be tricky at times.

 

I own at least one of each of Jerry's kits including the Buffalo (my favorite is the FW-190D conversion!).  The P-51B is on my bench as I write this.  This kit is pretty amazing with nothing really to do with "for its time".  It is a resin kit so one has to work at it just like any other resin kit.

 

I will be adapting a few of the newer after market items (e.g., bronze landing gears struts - the kit is heavy, cockpit placards and decals for the famous Red Tail etc). 

 

I have a second kit and I could be convinced to trade it straight up for one Tamiya P-51D.

 

Rick

[Jack]

Guys, and especially Jerry,  i think i must say that my impression of Jerry's B model was/is a bit biased, partly based on other reviews (though i'm no follower of reviews in general, either them being positive or negative), but also more or less "blinded" by (at present indeed over 10 years already) my own comparison with respect to the only B model available at that time, being the Revell release.

Ofcourse even at that time i  saw all the shortcomings in this kit (the revell one i mean) and therefore i applauded Jerry's resin release and bought it right there and then.

And indeed as you indicated, Jerry, it was obvious you did a great job changing and improving quite some parts, like the most obvious of it all viz. the nose shape etc., and i crawled all over the contents figuring how to do justice to this kit.

Now, two specific problems kept bugging me:  The first one was this feeling i had when comparing your resin release with the Revell's that there wasn't actually any real change in general outlook, at least that's how i even came to the same conclusion by examining drawings like the one mentioned by D.B.Andrus earlier in this thread, which obviously i must have interpreted not the right way apparently.

The second "problem" was triggered by my upcoming fear working with resin material, due to health problems i encountered working with resin.

So actually (though i still have several resin kits in my stash) these two completely incoherent items lead to my conclusion on the subject. I must say the way your kit was presented at that time must have scared the pants off me.

So, i'm still in doubt over how to feel about the kit, but it shows that the way one looks at a kit model is highly personal, and by no means should it be a condemnation of the manufacturer.

 

regards,

Jack.

Edited January 29, 2014 by Jack

[JRutman]

Hey Rick!!

  Haven't heard hide nor hair from you in many moons!

Wow,you have a buffalo!!??  That is a rare kit as I only sold a very few before selling the masters that were sadly destroyed in a fire soon after. So rare as hens' teeth.

  An Yes,this is a civil place and I am still thoroughly embarrased by my previous outburst. Not my usual thing.

J

[Ironwing]

Guys, and especially Jerry,  i think i must say that my impression of Jerry's B model was/is a bit biased, partly based on other reviews (though i'm no follower of reviews in general, either them being positive or negative), but also more or less "blinded" by (at present indeed over 10 years already) my own comparison with respect to the only B model available at that time, being the Revell release.

Ofcourse even at that time i  saw all the shortcomings in this kit (the revell one i mean) and therefore i applauded Jerry's resin release and bought it right there and then.

And indeed as you indicated, Jerry, it was obvious you did a great job changing and improving quite some parts, like the most obvious of it all viz. the nose shape etc., and i crawled all over the contents figuring how to do justice to this kit.

Now, two specific problems kept bugging me:  The first one was this feeling i had when comparing your resin release with the Revell's that there wasn't actually any real change in general outlook, at least that's how i even came to the same conclusion by examining drawings like the one mentioned by D.B.Andrus earlier in this thread, which obviously i must have interpreted not the right way apparently.

The second "problem" was triggered by my upcoming fear working with resin material, due to health problems i encountered working with resin.

So actually (though i still have several resin kits in my stash) these two completely incoherent items lead to my conclusion on the subject. I must say the way your kit was presented at that time must have scared the pants off me.

So, i'm still in doubt over how to feel about the kit, but it shows that the way one looks at a kit model is highly personal, and by no means should it be a condemnation of the manufacturer.

 

regards,

Jack.

Jack,

 

Perhaps I can help you. If you compared Revells B to the Neely drawing, what you probably saw was a near perfect center section and empennage. Revel got the cross section pretty close. The nose, which JR replaced, was a disaster along with myriad other items. The wing, as Revell produced it, was also good in platform. If you like, I'll send you a B free of charge. It isn't commercially available and it's injection molded. All you have to do is say you want it, send me your address, and finish it.

 

Normally I don't involve myself in such engagements. However, I've known JR a long time. He doesn't have a lot of company on the top shelf in my book.

 

Best

 

Geoff

[Jack]

Hi Geoff,

 

thanks for your input on this, and indeed i guess i must have been thrown off track with hindsight, and if this discussion hadn't come up it would have bugged me for quite some time to come.

I thought i had a good "eye" on the Mustang, with lots of documentation and on the modelling front lots of 1/32 scale Mustang kits of different brandnames in my stash, but it shows you're never too old to learn new things.

(though i once made a hybrid, grafting a Monogram "D" nose onto a Revell "B" fuselage, but that didn't do it for me either)

I appreciate your gesture very much, but you need not go thru all the hassle sending me a B wing, i just hope Jerry isn't too upset after all this commotion i apparently threw up.

 

cheers,

Jack.

[Rick Griewski]

Hey Rick!!

  Haven't heard hide nor hair from you in many moons!

Wow,you have a buffalo!!??  That is a rare kit as I only sold a very few before selling the masters that were sadly destroyed in a fire soon after. So rare as hens' teeth.

  An Yes,this is a civil place and I am still thoroughly embarrased by my previous outburst. Not my usual thing.

J

 

Hello Jerry,  It has been a long time. I just tried to leave you a message to do some catching up but the LSP system said you were not taking any.

 

Rick

[David66]

Hey Jerry, no reason to apologise for defending your kit. Just glad this didn't descend into a godawful slanging match, personally, I was sick as a parrot when I had to sell the P-51B fuselage I bought from you and a bunch of other kits in my stash. I'd planned on combining it with the Trumpeter wings but, in the end, it was a choice between paying my mortgage or keeping my kits.

 A truly horrible decision but a 'no-brainer' really, can't make models if I have nowhere to live. On reflection, I think I'd have been better off just getting a complete kit from you as the difference in surface detail between yours and the Trumpeter kit was very noticable and I'm not sure if I could have mated their wings and your fuselage anyway, probably why I didn't build the thing, just kept looking at the bits and thinking, 'one day!'

  I guess this thread kinda shows just how different we are when it comes to what we look for in a kit. For me, it's not even a choice, your P-51B puts the Trumpeter and Revell kits well and truly in the shade, both in terms of detail and shape.

  I know you're out of the biz, and I appreciate your reasons for getting out, but my question is: Do you have any P-51B complete kits left, if so, how much would it be, including shipping to the U.K? And if not, do you have any plans to make the masters available to someone like Grey Matter as I know some of your upgrades are being produced by them now? Take care, best wishes, David.

[LSP_Ray]

I, too, have one of Jerry's P-51B's and have kept it as the best kit to date. I also have one of Jerry's Buffalo's so maybe Rick and I have all the hen's teeth?

[Rick Griewski]

I, too, have one of Jerry's P-51B's and have kept it as the best kit to date. I also have one of Jerry's Buffalo's so maybe Rick and I have all the hen's teeth?

I have to admit to owning two of the Buffalo kits. One new in the box and the other I picked up for a sniff of glue as a partially built "pound puppy". The puppy has been a tough dog to build but is on its way to completion. Good skill builder.

[Derek B]

I have asked Tim at Grey Matter Figures quite some time ago to seriously consider producing Jerry's P-51B kit as there is still a demand for it and who knows when a definitive IM P-51B/C kit may come out?

 

Derek

Edited January 30, 2014 by Derek B