P-51 Engines

[Dan Paxton]

 

I just wanted to draw attention to the exhaust ports and how the y are open, as seen in the picture above.

 

 

Now how it looks with cowls removed.  Notice how the fairing for the exhaust stacks is still in place (as well as the stacks them-selves)

 

 

Is it just me or am I missing something here.  I know its a minor detail, but my OCD has taken control and forcing me to ask what the preference is for modeling this aspect of the engine?

 

Thanks

V/R

Dan

[LSP_Ron]

Hi there, I moved your post over to here where it more properly belongs.

 

I am not sure what your question is? the first picture is a raw engine with the exhaust manifolds removed (and valve covers). On all merlins the exhuast manifolds bolt to each exhaust port, the mustang has a shroud over them that is part of the cowl support structure. Its intended to reduce drag by sealing the exhaust slit.  This is scewed onto the cowl support structure and is removable if a manifold needs replacing. I read somewhere that they  are prone to cracking a lot do to the hot/cold cycles of running the engine.  Tamiya has this depicted this perfectly in my veiw?

 

[Dan Paxton]

Ron,

Thanks for the move and thanks for the thought.  I have just noticed on many builds that the engine in the Mustang (when cowl's are removed) shows a raw engine like in the first pic; however your picture is more realistic with the stacks still on.  I think what struck me was in looking at engines in display models the exhaust ports are closed (have no stacks and are not opened up) or that the fairing is not there either.  

I know each person has their own preference and idea, I wonder what is the thought process in this small detail (if I am going to super detail a large mustang, I want to get it all)

 

Again, just my OCD taking control

 

Thanks again sir

 

V/R

Dan

[LSP_Matt]

 

 

I think what struck me was in looking at engines in display models the exhaust ports are closed (have no stacks and are not opened up) or that the fairing is not there either.  

 

 

 

Hi Dan,

 

I'm not sure what you're getting at Dan and I definitely don't mean to be pedantic.  The first pic in your series shows the Merlin engine with the cylinder head exhaust port exposed. (ie without any exhaust stacks).  I think in some Mustang pictures I've seen the shrouds (the cover in between the exhaust stacks that Ron mentions) both installed and also uninstalled.

 

If I'm understanding your question right it was about whether the shroud that covers the exhaust stacks is always installed. I'd be inclined to leave it on if the engine is installed in the plane and off if the engine is out of the plane.

 

Cheers Matty

[csavaglio]

I'm also not really sure what to be answering here, but I'll throw in my 2 cents (with today's dollar, that's not worth much). 

 

Personally, on the rare occasion I model an exposed engine, I model it as it would look with the real panel removed, i.e., like the photo above with the exhausts in place.  I'm a car guy and have worked on my fair share of engines.  When cylinder heads have no exhaust, the ports aren't blocked off like you typically see in models, they're open and you can see the valve stems.  Leaving the exhaust ports flashed over without detail would be the same to me as leaving exhaust tips solid or not drilling out a gun barrel.

 

As far as Mustangs go, if I recall, some aircraft didn't have the shroud installed at all, some had it, and some had it removed later on.

[Out2gtcha]

No mustang expert here but the guys are right.

 

 

Above all, I would try to study pics (if any are available) of the air-frame you intend to model, as there were so many differences between war time Mustangs (as to some with shrouds, some without) that it would almost be down to the individual aircraft you were modeling AND/OR if your displaying your aircraft w/open panels, whether or not you put on the shrouds  and/or left the exhaust ports open.

[dodgem37]

' what the preference is for modeling this aspect of the engine?'

As far as I know, only Zoukei Mura's P-51 has open exhaust ports, so that may be one reason why people who build the Tamiya kit don't leave the exhaust stacks off.  The other, at least for me, even tho all of the other panels would be off of the plane save the exhaust shroud, would be aesthetics.  I would leave the exhaust shroud on because it looks better with it than without it.

 

Sincerely,

Mark

[Out2gtcha]

I would leave the exhaust shroud on because it looks better with it than without it.

 

 

I deg to biffer!      

 

Personally I LOVE the look of of the UN-shrouded exhausts and would do all of my 51s as such if possible.........just gives it a more combat ready, aggressive look IMHO..............but not all the schemes I love have un-shrouded exhaust like I like -

I especially love the look of the Moskit un-shrouded exhausts -

 

 

 

Guess its all a matter of personal taste.  

[dodgem37]

'I deg to biffer!'

You funny man!  I'm with you there, Brian.  Unshrouded exhausts are aggressive-looking, and create a contrasting 'dirty' foreground center-of-interest to the sleek-lined background of a clean cowling.  Much as you've illustrated.

 

For me, based upon the imagery shown, that being all panels removed, a shrouded exhaust is a smooth foreground contrast to the 'dirty' visually complicated background.

 

To my minds eye, if the shrouds and panels were removed, there would be no foreground/background contrasting relationship and no developed center-of-interest.  The entire area would be equally busy.  In essence, visually flat.

  

'Guess its all a matter of personal taste.'

Is that the same as aesthetics?

 

Appreciate your indulgence, Brian.

 

Sincerely,

Mark

[Ironwing]

Why not jump in here...just to set the record straight. The Rolls Royce Merlin was not the engine used in the Mustang. The Mustang was powered by the Packard V1650. These engines were license built under the Rolls Royce Patent. Packard built engines did not carry the Rolls Royce rocker covers.

 

Just my two...

 

Hope everyone is well...

 

Geoff

[Ironwing]

I'm also not really sure what to be answering here, but I'll throw in my 2 cents (with today's dollar, that's not worth much). 

 

Personally, on the rare occasion I model an exposed engine, I model it as it would look with the real panel removed, i.e., like the photo above with the exhausts in place.  I'm a car guy and have worked on my fair share of engines.  When cylinder heads have no exhaust, the ports aren't blocked off like you typically see in models, they're open and you can see the valve stems.  Leaving the exhaust ports flashed over without detail would be the same to me as leaving exhaust tips solid or not drilling out a gun barrel.

 

As far as Mustangs go, if I recall, some aircraft didn't have the shroud installed at all, some had it, and some had it removed later on.

 

All had them from the factory...

[Out2gtcha]

Guess its all a matter of personal taste.'

Is that the same as aesthetics?

 

 

lol    Thanks Mark.   

 

 

Yes it is.................I think.  I cant be 100% sure as I cant even seem to spell althetics  ethetiks easthetics athletics aesthetics 

Edited November 5, 2013 by Out2gtcha

[Juggernut]

Why not jump in here...just to set the record straight. The Rolls Royce Merlin was not the engine used in the Mustang. The Mustang was powered by the Packard V1650. These engines were license built under the Rolls Royce Patent. Packard built engines did not carry the Rolls Royce rocker covers.

 

Just my two...

 

Hope everyone is well...

 

Geoff

Damn!  You beat me to it....  I was gonna say that the Packard Merlins didn't have the Rolls Rocker covers.... 

 

"Your word is cow".....  C-O-W...E-I-E-I-O.   BZZZZTTTTT!!!!  Dag Nabit!  15 minutes could save you 15 percent on car insurance.

[Dan Paxton]

This is what I was looking for!!  Your comments, thoughts, suggestions and quips are what I needed .......so pretty much use my license to build it as I see fit?  If I want to open the exhaust port on the engine block, I can or show it covered with a plywood cover......with or without the fairings.....my OCD just went PLAID !!!!!!

 

BTW you guys are awesome!    

[csavaglio]

Did the B/C models come with the shrouds from the factory too or was it just for the D's?

 

Dan,

I've seen period photos of crate engines in maintenance scenes (and museum engines) with simple metal block off plates bolted where the exhausts would be.....not one plate accross all the ports, but one plate for each port.  I can't recall what color the period ones were, but the ones I've typically seen in museums were red, as I recall.

 

Chris