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Heinkel He51 - resource matrial?

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Hello Simon,

I am enjoying this exchange too !

I have never been very certain as to the differences between the various he 51 marks, many examples seem to have a mixture of variant features.

I have never seen bomb racks on an he 51 unless you are referring to the fuel tank which often had bomblets lashed to it, can you elaborate on this point ? Any photos of bomb racks ?

 

"Later Cs have a missing panel in the fuselage under the pilot, just to the rear of the fuel tank, this does fit a framed section in the tubular fuselage frame, but I have no idea why the panel was not fitted? - any ideas?"

 

Hah ! I was hoping you might be able to explain that to me. Is it perhaps a bay for flare chutes ? Smoke grenade chutes ? Perhaps even a bomb bay for small bombs such as the SD10C ? Perhaps just ventilation of some sort ? Only guesses on my part.

Here is the best photo I have of it.

 

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2779/87ix.jpg

 

"The Silverwings kit it absolutely littered with errors, but I was mistaken to think it was a missing cabane strut - it is in fact missing the aileron actuator shaft that sits on the aircraft's off side behind the cabane struts."

 

So does this mean that what I took to be added cabane struts are actually aileron actuator shafts ? If so where were the actuators in the early he 51 ?

 

"one of the biggest variables I can see is the wooden prop blade design - dozens of different profiles!"

 

Can you elaborate on this please ? I would only say with any confidence that there were two kinds of props used. Propellers being such complex and subtle shapes can look very different with just a slight shift in perspective. But I must look into that a bit more.

This photo shows the two prop types I am familiar with. The he 51 in the foreground has a prop type seen on some late aircraft. I think this prop was also used on some Arado 68s. The He 51 behind it has the rather odd looking paddle like prop seen on most He 51s.

 

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/7348/2u1b.jpg

 

That's all for tonight,

all the best,

Art

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Guest KingK_series

Hello Simon,

I am enjoying this exchange too !

I have never been very certain as to the differences between the various he 51 marks, many examples seem to have a mixture of variant features.

I have never seen bomb racks on an he 51 unless you are referring to the fuel tank which often had bomblets lashed to it, can you elaborate on this point ? Any photos of bomb racks ?

 

"Later Cs have a missing panel in the fuselage under the pilot, just to the rear of the fuel tank, this does fit a framed section in the tubular fuselage frame, but I have no idea why the panel was not fitted? - any ideas?"

 

Hah ! I was hoping you might be able to explain that to me. Is it perhaps a bay for flare chutes ? Smoke grenade chutes ? Perhaps even a bomb bay for small bombs such as the SD10C ? Perhaps just ventilation of some sort ? Only guesses on my part.

Here is the best photo I have of it.

 

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/2779/87ix.jpg

 

"The Silverwings kit it absolutely littered with errors, but I was mistaken to think it was a missing cabane strut - it is in fact missing the aileron actuator shaft that sits on the aircraft's off side behind the cabane struts."

 

So does this mean that what I took to be added cabane struts are actually aileron actuator shafts ? If so where were the actuators in the early he 51 ?

 

"one of the biggest variables I can see is the wooden prop blade design - dozens of different profiles!"

 

Can you elaborate on this please ? I would only say with any confidence that there were two kinds of props used. Propellers being such complex and subtle shapes can look very different with just a slight shift in perspective. But I must look into that a bit more.

This photo shows the two prop types I am familiar with. The he 51 in the foreground has a prop type seen on some late aircraft. I think this prop was also used on some Arado 68s. The He 51 behind it has the rather odd looking paddle like prop seen on most He 51s.

 

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/7348/2u1b.jpg

 

That's all for tonight,

all the best,

Art

Art

 

 

hah!

 

well looks top me as if they are 6 bays for 10kg bombs

 

- there is the thing..... descriptions in tech specs are wrong sometimes

 

- had this with the single Boeging 281 in Republican service at Getafe 1936-7 - described as having two vickers mounted in pods under the wings - nope two Vickers air cooled guns from a ND52 mounted in the browning mounts firing through the prop - but it gets into the ether.... and then takes so much research to learn the truth

 

so He51 described as having 6 sc10 racks under the wings, more research today says 2x2 SC50 under the wings and 6 sc10...... so there's the answer in the fuselage behind the pilots seat

 

 

will now try to get corroboration from contacts at the Berlin Technische museum.

 

thankyou so much

 

will post pics of props - there are lots of very subltly different shapes, mostly in the tips, but some blades completely different. Berlin museum has one original He51 prop.

 

 

where on earth did you get the 'bomb bay' pic?

 

 

 

many many thanks for this, its a huge step forward.

 

 

simon

 

pics coming

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I'd put my money on it being a bomb bay too but its odd place for a bomb bay if thats what it is .

I suppose with the forward fuselage taken up by the drop tank and the wood and fabric wings not capable of holding much weight there wasn't anywhere else to put it. Some WWI types like the Sopwith Strutter had a similar arrangement too .

I imagine the shift of center of gravity it would have caused must have kept the pilot fully entertained .

 

I note the variety in the tips of the "late style" prop, some are rounded ,

 

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/698/f55z.jpg

 

others appear "clipped" .

 

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8182/9kwv.jpg

 

Thats an interesting fact you mentioned about the Peashooter, another of my favorite aircraft from this period.

 

The "bomb bay" pic was an ebay find. Ebay Germany has proven to be something of a goldmine for He 51 photos in recent years, especially for the Spanish civil war period. You have to dig around a bit though as the he 51 often gets misidentified or not identified at all.

Heres a couple more photos of that 2 plane pile up.

 

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1830/ldu0.jpg

 

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6827/7bs9.jpg

 

Until the next time ,

Art

 

 

 

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Hi Simon,

One area that I have very few photos of is the upper decking between the cockpit and engine.

This is probably the best one, note the later one piece windscreen and teardrop fairing in the foreground. From what I can tell this fairing was only on the starboard side on later mks .

 

xiqi.jpg

 

 

Heres another interesting image of the early 3 part windscreen and gun site. Unfortunately things get a bit blurry under the wing. There are also no rigging cables there which is odd, perhaps I have misidentified this aircraft (?).

 

gk32.jpg

 

 

And then there's this but I'm not even sure that it is a he 51. Note that there are no sleeves over the forward part of the machine guns . Perhaps its an Arado 65 (?).

 

 

w2wo.jpg

 

And there is this very nice image that was posted earlier .

 

jy0h.jpg

 

If you have any more photos of this area of the he 51 I would love to see them.

All the best,

Art

Edited by Arthur Driscol

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Guest KingK_series


Excellent pics Art, I'm lost in admiration at your ability to find them

the vent in the cowl is a vent operated by a simple lever from the instrument cowl


I'm puzzled too by the shot with no rigging lines

the shot with no gun covers looks like an Arado to me - from the wing shape

brilliant help

- have been out of town and keyboard still won't allow me to post pics for want of parentheses but coming soon -

thankyou so much for these.

just how many HE51 pics do you have?

very best wishes simon

Edited by LSP_Kevin

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I guess I've managed to scrounge together about 500 images of varying quality.

If there is some point of particular interest you have let me know and I will see what I've got.

One area I have few clear photos of is the fuel tank and its attachment points .

Here are a few useful photos .

 

Note that the fuel tank had 4 side braces .

 

84da.jpg

 

j1of.jpg

 

dmth.png

 

I imagine you have the below image in one of your manuals.

 

e9hr.jpg

 

By the way did you find out any more info about the "bomb bay" ?

 

 

Art

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Guest KingK_series

By the way did you find out any more info about the "bomb bay" ?

 

 

Art

Thankyou as ever Art

 

 

yes I have that manual - note the indented shape in the nose to clear the radiator duct - again not present in the Silverwings kit, because thr rad is wrong.

 

the tank has a complicated release strut on it too so both attachments can be simultaneously released in flight.

 

 

I have the first pic with the two SC10 bombs strappeed to the tank for the fist appearance of the Luftwaffe's Flammbombe

 

 

Berlin hasn't got back to me on the internal bomb rack yet, but the questions are with them.

 

 

best wishes simon

 

ps very envious of your library

 

would love to see it all

Edited by LSP_Kevin

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Gentlemen, I wish someone would have contacted me via Hyperscale. The Buchvertrieb-AH is actually an eBay store http://stores.ebay.com/Buchvertrieb-AH?_rdc=1 that sells Luftwaffe manual CD reprints from the Anton Hafner Archive which you can buy directly from http://www.luftfahrt-archiv-hafner.de/

There is a significant amount of work to be done in the cockpit of the Silver-Wings Kit. They got it close but off enough that many things just didn't com out right. In the end I bit my lip and scratched the instrument panel and the rudder controls, modifying other components and lived with the misalignment imposed by the incorrect angles of the interior tubing.

I really appreciate a couple of the photos posted here that I did not have. Specifically the top of cowl although I knew it was spit and the intake remained with the engine when the cowl was raised. There are many shots of the cowl up and the gap apparent. I knew also that the sway braces on the aux tank probably attached at the wing roots but I had no clear picture to tell me where. Thanks again for those.

I enjoyed that kit quite a bit and I'd like to do another and address some of my omissions and compromises. It still embarrasses me that it should have been orange and not yellow....DOH!

When the time comes to tackle the second one I will summon the courage to post the progress here.

 

 

all the best

 

b

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Guest KingK_series

Gentlemen, I wish someone would have contacted me via Hyperscale. The Buchvertrieb-AH is actually an eBay store http://stores.ebay.com/Buchvertrieb-AH?_rdc=1 that sells Luftwaffe manual CD reprints from the Anton Hafner Archive which you can buy directly from http://www.luftfahrt-archiv-hafner.de/

There is a significant amount of work to be done in the cockpit of the Silver-Wings Kit. They got it close but off enough that many things just didn't com out right. In the end I bit my lip and scratched the instrument panel and the rudder controls, modifying other components and lived with the misalignment imposed by the incorrect angles of the interior tubing.

I really appreciate a couple of the photos posted here that I did not have. Specifically the top of cowl although I knew it was spit and the intake remained with the engine when the cowl was raised. There are many shots of the cowl up and the gap apparent. I knew also that the sway braces on the aux tank probably attached at the wing roots but I had no clear picture to tell me where. Thanks again for those.

I enjoyed that kit quite a bit and I'd like to do another and address some of my omissions and compromises. It still embarrasses me that it should have been orange and not yellow....DOH!

When the time comes to tackle the second one I will summon the courage to post the progress here.

 

 

all the best

 

b

Bruce

 

 

Good to have you aboard this thread, as soon as i get sorted with a keyboard I shall enjoy posting pics to share with you and Art.

 

Art has been huge in his contribution -

 

- To my mind the Silverwings pedals and stick are all wrong - the stick in the kit fits into a horizontal actuator both left and right of the stick, in fact the He 51 actuator went just to the left of the stick and then into a vertical actuator through the fuselage wall into the mainplane which is entirely missing in the kit -

 

the area behind the cockpit is all wrong too and missing details - I ended up using drawings to fabricate a brass rod fuselage frame -

 

love to know more of your thoughts on the kit -

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I really appreciate a couple of the photos posted here that I did not have. Specifically the top of cowl although I knew it was spit and the intake remained with the engine when the cowl was raised. There are many shots of the cowl up and the gap apparent. I knew also that the sway braces on the aux tank probably attached at the wing roots but I had no clear picture to tell me where. Thanks again for those.

Hello Bruce,

Nice to hear from you and glad to be of assistance. I am a big admirer of your example of the Silver Wings He 51, it's a beautiful rendering .

Did you alter the shape of the kit spinner to a more pointed shape ? It seems more accurate in form than I've seen on other renditions of this kit .

Here are a couple more photos that illustrate the placement of the drop tanks and its sway braces .

 

This almost perfectly head on view illustrates well the angle of the rear sway braces on the fuel tank ( zoom in for full effect ) . Note also how the airflow vane under the engine ( that antenna like thing ) is off set to starboard.

 

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2077/3kfc.jpg

 

No fuel tank here, but you can clearly see the exact location of the sway brace attachment points as two dark spots on the wing roots .

This photo also evidences well a point Simon made earlier, the fact that the radiator was the same width along its length rather than tapered to the rear, a flaw repeated on all plans and every kit I've seen of the He 51 .

 

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5549/m23k.jpg

 

Art.

Edited by Arthur Driscol

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Guest KingK_series

Excellent pis as ever Art

 

you must have been researching this for an age

 

heres one of mine to show the underside

 

010613-68_zps71bdb487.jpg

 

 

showing clearly the parallel sided rad, the Sliverwings rad is not only completely the wrong shape but far too narrow as the real thing extended almost to the width of the fuselage sides

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Guest KingK_series

Another fault in the Silverwings kit is the shape of the vent on the nose underside , visable here just behind the prop given as two small holes in the 1/32 kit

 

3kfc_zps2c8239fb.jpg

 

as can be seen it was a square vent that ducted straight into the crankcase.

 

 

lkjuu_zps23478ee0.jpg

Edited by KingK_series

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Thanks Simon, that last photo was absent from my collection till now.

One thing I would really like to see is a close up or diagram of the tail skid , do you have anything ?

By the way, will you be treating us to a work in progress thread of your he 51 ?

Art

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Guest KingK_series

Thanks Simon, that last photo was absent from my collection till now.

One thing I would really like to see is a close up or diagram of the tail skid , do you have anything ?

By the way, will you be treating us to a work in progress thread of your he 51 ?

Art

Here we go

 

tailwhhhh_zps8d4fa17d.jpg

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