akeller Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Hello, The Hornet is one of my favorite aircraft! I've been gathering information and drawings to scratch build a 1/32nd model. I didn't realize that the Huntley drawings were wrong. Could one of the more knowledgable members help me understand where they are "off" or, better still, point me in the direction of a set of accurate drawings for my model? Thank you in advance! Al Keller aw-keller@earthlink.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) Drawings and plans are over rated, and not even needed for kit construction. Are you serious? Have you seen for example Trumpeter's EE Lightning F.2/6 or Revell's Mig 29, and I'm sure there are worse example out there. If you think drawings and plans are overrated you might as well build your models out of Lego. Edited April 11, 2013 by Kagemusha Artful69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Erm - isn't that exactly the problem - Trumpeters Lightnings match a few of the commercially available scale drawings perfectly! I think we can all agree - there are *accurate* plans with excellent provenance - and there are your average 'scale drawings' - which tend to be plagiarised to some degree and repeat errors previously made... I've probably mis-read - good at that! Really hope they do it justice! Iain Artful69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Erm - isn't that exactly the problem - Trumpeters Lightnings match a few of the commercially available scale drawings perfectly! I think we can all agree - there are *accurate* plans with excellent provenance - and there are your average 'scale drawings' - which tend to be plagiarised to some degree and repeat errors previously made... I've probably mis-read - good at that! Really hope they do it justice! Iain Nope, I think you've summed it up perfectly. The Lightning matched available drawings, much like HpH's Hornet kit will - I'm presuming they're using the Huntley drawings - whereas neither are accurate, nor the kit's either. Frank Brown had his own accurate drawings made, and it seems John "Aero" Adams has done likewise, but won't allow HpH to use them due to a couple of bad experiences with Eastern European manufacturers. Refer back to the Britmodeller thread http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234912212-132nd-de-havilland-dh103-hornet-by-hph-box-art/page-2 Personally I'm more than a little stumpted by post #8 which is critical of the accuracy of the profiles, when he knows full well he will do nothing to help them produce an accurate kit. All very sad. Iain and Artful69 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) John's response in the BM thread isn't the way he'd normally type - strongly suspect he's had his fingers singed at some point. But, yes, a little sad. Hopefully HPH will be at Telford again this year and we can make a beeline to their stand! I only have their L-29 at present - but it is a thing of great beauty (the kit - not necessarily the aeroplane! ) - an accurate Hornet to the same standard of detail really would be something wouldn't it?! Also - I'm not making too much of a pair of side view drawings for a forthcoming kit just yet... Iain Edited April 11, 2013 by 32SIG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 an accurate Hornet to the same standard of detail really would be something wouldn't it?! Which is why it's so sad. Built the Frog kit as a kid, well kind of, first model I attempted to spray, didn't know I had to thin the paint... needless to say I didn't finish it, still rankles. Iain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) That made me smile - happy memories of bashing together the old Frog kit when I were a lad. And finishing one as an adult to a reasonable standard and presenting it to my old friend Chris - ex. armourer on Hornets with 33 Sqn, Malaya - just before he died. Iain Edited April 11, 2013 by 32SIG Kagemusha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dekenba Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 Maybe they do have access to accurate drawings, maybe they have worked up their own drawings based on factory measurements, maybe they have worked off all available photos and available dimensions. I would hazard tat there are (or were) not complete drawings for many of the WNWs kits, but I hear no complaints regarding their kits. Drawings and plans are over rated, and not even needed for kit construction. I think it will be awesome as the company have a very good track record. You don't need accurate drawings for kit construction. But if you want to build an accurate model, it certainly helps an awful lot. Artful69 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 If HpH had a track record (like the lightnings and Trumpy) of doing this kind of thing (stealing commercially avialble plans and just copying them to get a model made) I can see but where is the track record/proof that HpH is even using bad plans? All I see in HpHs track record are past releases were no one has ever complained about accuracy to my knowledge..........Walrus, L-29/39, B-534, Ar-196 just to name a few. I guess I am WAY confused as people are acting like its already confirmed the Hornet from HpH will be wrong. Again, they have no track record of doing this kind of thing..........and it fact seem to have the opposite track record of producing really accurate and high quality kits. Id suggest someone contact HpH and let them know or at least somehow get verification they are in fact using the Huntley drawings before we bury the kit without so much as a HINT of a picture of any resin what so ever. Alburymodeler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) Brian see post #26 http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234936558-dh-hornet/page-2?hl=hornet I've been in touch with Mirek, but was hoping to source the Aero drawing for them. Here's a set of profiles from the Hornet and Sea Hornet book by Tony Buttler and are deemed correct by those in the know. Compare with the HpH profiles. Off to have a nap in a quiet dark room... profiles posted under fair rules... Edited April 11, 2013 by Kagemusha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubert Boillot Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) When you start working on a new model, whether it is for cutting steel for molds or for producing masters or for doing your own scratchbuilding, of course you start by locating drawings .... And in today's world where you produce a 3D-CAD model, the line-drawings, preferably with sections, are the fist step of creating the 3D model. One tends to forget that recreating volumes out of 3-view drawings (sometimes inconsistent between the different axis) may introduce some wrong interpretations and have the designer engrossed by his work, nice-looking but not accurate in the end. I would assume that, when you have access to a lot of documentation and even "free" drawings on the net, everybody would do what I do, i.e. collect different drawings and compare them, and then cross-check them again to photos (and yes photos can be misleading) and ideally to your own mesurements of the 1:1 model if you can find one ... On a project I am working on right now, one drawing, when blown to 1/32 scale had a wing chord of 6,5 cms instead of 6,93 (scale reduction of manufacturer data). On another drawing of the same airplane, the overall length is off by 1 cm, 0,5 missing in the cockpit area, and 0,5 missing at the tail ... The morality is that I have decided not to trust (again and again) the drawings I have found so far, and draw my owns, whilst I am still seeking THE perfect drawing of the said airplane. The fact that some companies have used only one set of wrong drawings (strangely enough they are all from the same area of the world, where I genuinely do not know whether tehir designers have the same degree of free access to information that I have) to do their design work does not mean that all kit manufacturers forget their basic preparation work duties... and will not correct drawings they may find missing in an area. Just the same, having had a bad experience with one company from one area of the world does not give you the right to generalise that "they" are all to be put in the same bag... HPH models have so far produced some very nice models. Having their Avia 534, their SG 38 and their Walrus in my stash, I have so far been impressed by the level of attention to detail and accuracy. Let's assume that they are now aware of the deficiencies of the Huntley drawings and will seek to get an accurate 1/32 representation of the Hornet. At least, they have not yet cut steel to produce molds, like injected plastic manufacturers, and corrections are more possible, and not as expensive. If they stick to an established mistake that can be corrected and has been flaged to them, they will in the end damage their reputation. I tend to believe from the contacts I have had as a customer and from their products they value their reputation highly and will want to maintain it. Hubert. Edited June 24, 2013 by MostlyRacers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 (edited) Brian see post #26 http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234936558-dh-hornet/page-2?hl=hornet I've been in touch with Mirek, but was hoping to source the Aero drawing for them. Here's a set of profiles from the Hornet and Sea Hornet book by Tony Buttler and are deemed correct by those in the know. Compare with the HpH profiles. Off to have a nap in a quiet dark room... profiles posted under fair rules... Fair play............ So then we know for sure Merek is using the Huntley plans? If so, and they are acknowledged as bad does he continue to use them? Edited April 11, 2013 by Out2gtcha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Out2gtcha Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I really hope if is is using them that hes willing to listen to someone in the know who can get him correct plans. I really want a Hornet.....................and accurate one that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kagemusha Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Apparently there are more accurate plans in a book published in 1946, Aircraft of the fighting Powers, have emailed Mirek so see what plans they are using and if they have said book. To be continued.... Out2gtcha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akeller Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Hello! I checked HPH's website to see if there was an update on the Hornet and couldn't find anything at all. Is the kit still in the works or has it been shelved? Al Keller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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