Foiled HKM B-25J Strafer - 345th BG Air Apaches - Lady LiL

[Out2gtcha]

Thanks for the Vaseline tip Brian. I didn't use it on my MiG-15, and it explains why my burnishing tools were leaving marks in the foil. Time for another attempt I reckon!

 

Kev

 

 

NP Kev.

They still will leave some marks, especially if your using a tooth pic for picking out panel lines, or more likely rivets, but in my case I like the look, and ended up smoothing the marks out to point I was happy with by rubbing vigorously in the same direction I grained the panel in with the flat length side of a toothpick, then re-graining the panel a bit post-application with some tooth-paste.

[Wolf Buddee]

Fantastic tutorial Brian! She's lookin awesome and spraying the glue is pure genius. Never would have thought to do that but it makes perfect sense. I always seem to learn somethin' new from your posts. Brilliant!

 

Cheers,

Wolf

[joe]

Foiling looks so natural but scares the hell out of me from ever attempting it.

Awesome work mate.......inspirational even.

[Derek B]

Uber impressive work there Brian (As the B-25 wing is very much like the P-61 wing, I will take your current foiling work as a trial run for the Widow! ).

 

I have been a big fan of foiling for many years and have more or less followed the same path as you in terms of & E. I also came to the conclusion that spraying the glue was a better solution to spreading it, although I am going to try a slight different tack to this approach (If you'll excuse the pun!). BTW, I like the way you spray MS foil adhesive through your airbrush, and to answer Kev's question as well, I would also apply two coats, but one at 90 degrees to the other.

 

What I shall try is using this, which I have bought specifically for this task:

 

 

 

I don't know yet how it will work out with this adhesive - Whether the coverage will be too thick, nor if it would be better to spray it on the foil or the model?...I guess only time will tell!

 

Keep up the awesome work Brian, and if this latest foil tuition is not in the LSP tools and techniques section, then it should be!

 

Cheers

 

Derek

[geedubelyer]

Always a pleasure to watch a model being foiled. I admire anyone who has the cahones to tackle this delicate and time consuming procedure.

I've often wanted to foil the surface of a model and then paint it afterwards. I think applying the rivets to the foil surface rather than burnishing the kit rivets could give a very convincing effect making the surface of the foil behave like the skin of a real aircraft?

 

I'm glued to this topic.

 

Also, Derek, i am eager to see how that spray glue works. One of the things that daunts me about foiling is the glue application. please let everyone know how the 3M stuff works.

 

Cheers.

[Guest Peterpools]

Brian and Kevin

Thanks guys for the help and additional info ... mighty helpful.

Thanks

 

[Out2gtcha]

Thanks once again for all the nice comments guys.
I know we all have our own things that motivate us, but seeing and reading positive responses is ALWAYS nice, since one cannot always tell if ones own stuff really passes muster or not.

Uber impressive work there Brian (As the B-25 wing is very much like the P-61 wing, I will take your current foiling work as a trial run for the Widow! ).

I have been a big fan of foiling for many years and have more or less followed the same path as you in terms of & E. I also came to the conclusion that spraying the glue was a better solution to spreading it, although I am going to try a slight different tack to this approach (If you'll excuse the pun!). BTW, I like the way you spray MS foil adhesive through your airbrush, and to answer Kev's question as well, I would also apply two coats, but one at 90 degrees to the other.

What I shall try is using this, which I have bought specifically for this task:




I don't know yet how it will work out with this adhesive - Whether the coverage will be too thick, nor if it would be better to spray it on the foil or the model?...I guess only time will tell!

Keep up the awesome work Brian, and if this latest foil tuition is not in the LSP tools and techniques section, then it should be!

Cheers

Derek

 

 

 

Derek,
I have also experimented with the pressurized 3M spray adhesives.............

 

I used a 3M product like 77 as well as some off brands. The one constant I found is the because its pre-pressurized, it comes out of the can at a higher PSI, and therefor seems to "bubble up" a bit once the adhesive hits the intended surface.

 

Also on per most recommended procedures for application on these products it lists full bonding strength reached when the adhesive is sprayed on both surfaces. This created quite a lumpy situation when I attempted my experiments. I also experimented with applying just a single side of adhesive.............although I didnt really test is tensile/adhesion properties, because the pressurized can created so many little bubbles, and little lumps and bumps, it was almost impossible to lay foil down over it.

I also found the because it was being shot out of a rattle can, and you couldnt control the PSI, it was very difficult to control the amount of adhesive laid down, and this led to some areas being quite thick and heavy, leaving other areas not as thickly covered.

 

I would definitely suggest what you were going to do anyway Derek, and thats experiment on your own with it. I think it would have been a MUCH easier and faster solution to the adhesive problems, but when I did it, all the bubbles created when first shot down, made it almost impossible to make anything smooth.

[Derek B]

Thanks once again for all the nice comments guys.

I know we all have our own things that motivate us, but seeing and reading positive responses is ALWAYS nice, since one cannot always tell if ones own stuff really passes muster or not.

 

 

 

 

 

Derek,

I have also experimented with the pressurized 3M spray adhesives.............

 

I used a 3M product like 77 as well as some off brands. The one constant I found is the because its pre-pressurized, it comes out of the can at a higher PSI, and therefor seems to "bubble up" a bit once the adhesive hits the intended surface.

 

Also on per most recommended procedures for application on these products it lists full bonding strength reached when the adhesive is sprayed on both surfaces. This created quite a lumpy situation when I attempted my experiments. I also experimented with applying just a single side of adhesive.............although I didnt really test is tensile/adhesion properties, because the pressurized can created so many little bubbles, and little lumps and bumps, it was almost impossible to lay foil down over it.

I also found the because it was being shot out of a rattle can, and you couldnt control the PSI, it was very difficult to control the amount of adhesive laid down, and this led to some areas being quite thick and heavy, leaving other areas not as thickly covered.

 

I would definitely suggest what you were going to do anyway Derek, and thats experiment on your own with it. I think it would have been a MUCH easier and faster solution to the adhesive problems, but when I did it, all the bubbles created when first shot down, made it almost impossible to make anything smooth.

 

Thanks for your feedback Brian - This is pretty much what I had been afraid of. Anyhow, I'll take on board your comments and have a little play around with the stuff one of these days - I expect that the best method to date is yours.

 

Cheers

 

Derek

Edited July 8, 2013 by Derek B

[foiler]

Obviously, I have been away for too long! Absolutely wonderful work Brian! Thank you for carrying the foiling torch along experimental paths. I did try the airbrush route as well for foil adhesive, and like the results so much that I now have two airbrushes; a "Gluebrush" and a "Paintbrush".

 

I have been working on the Normandie Ocean Liner project, getting detail parts 3D printed, and creating the photo-etch frets. I have a completely new-found respect for people who design these frets; it is not a task for the faint-hearted! The 3D parts were a breeze to get done; design the part in 3D, convert to an STL file, send to printer, get parts. Since there are no two PE vendors who utilize the same file and process conventions it takes forever to get what they need to make the photo-tool, i.e.; layers for different operations, tabbing, offsets, etc.,etc., etc. And the nesting of the parts on a sheet of material is like creating a 500 piece puzzle!

 

Thanks again for sharing your processes. I know those who have "always wanted to do that" gather a wealth of information from your builds. We have all become better modelers after watching all your trials and tribulations!

 

Ken

Edited July 5, 2013 by foiler

[Out2gtcha]

Thanks again guys. Thanks Ken, The Normandie project sounds quite intense.....you should put up some pics in the "Non LSP" forum

[Out2gtcha]

Few more early panels foiled on the fuse -

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More work commencing now........

 

 

 

[scvrobeson]

Nice! Are you riveting the foil once it's on, or does it pick up the riveting you already did on the nose?

 

 

 

Looks great. Really cool to see how it stuck to those curves.

 

 

 

Matt

[Guest Peterpools]

Brian

Looking fantastic.

Keep 'em coming

:popcorn:

[Out2gtcha]

Thanks guys!

 

This is not the only way to foil, as most who do seem to figure out little tricks of the trade on their own, or their own unique ways of doing things.

 

Matt, as to your question, I do both. There are WAY too many rivets on this thing to reproduce all of them post foil application, but for areas like the nose, I did rivet things after the foil was applied, as this area is going to be covered in paint, and the rivets will have an extra hard time standing out with the layers of paint on them over the foil.

 

From experience, the foil really needs to be grained (in my case all panels are grained in someway prior to finishing them) before any paint is applied over it, as the paint really requires a good bite, to keep from flaking off the foil if at all flexed.

 

In my case the masks provided in Elis decal set (as with most commercial mask material ive found) have less overall "stick" than say normal Tamiya style masking tape does, so this also lends itself well to paint over foil.

 

The 1 and ONLY reason Im even foiling any panels on the nose (I sure wouldnt if not needed since there is no real chipping on the Lady to be seen, just fading) is that Lady LiL has a "stripe" left of natural metal crossing from the upper middle nose panel onto both sides gun covers, and I didnt want to paint, or mask over any NMF paint in this area:

 

 

 

 

 

Even with the long weekend I didnt get as much as I wanted done because of the holiday. More foiling to come this week, as I have completed the "tough spots", IE - SUPER duper compound curves of the leading edges of the engine nacelles and tail plains. Pics to come!

 

Cheers and thanks guys!

Edited July 8, 2013 by Out2gtcha

[zaxos345]

Really outstanding work Brian!!! Great tutorial as well!!!

 

John

 

 

P.S. I know that it is difficult but you should try some day to film all the foiling procedure for all of us novice guys. I have read your P-40E topic as well as your P-51 but video is quite different from photoes!!!

Just a thought and a suggestion of mine.