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P-51 Wings: Color and Finish


Guest Peterpools

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P_51D_Puttied_Wing.jpg

 

Above is what 40% chord puttied and gray primer looks like on a factory fresh P-51D wing (top and bottom). Notice the airfoil smoother, which according to Michael O'Leary (p. 57) was fast drying red putty and gray primer. From what I've read on the SIG, there were two coats of gray primer sanded between each coat. Note the entire wing is not puttied, only up to the leading edges of the ammunition magazine access panels and does not extend all the way to the tip of the wing. The seam where the outboard wing attaches mid-aileron is visible (but may have been sealed) as is the one where the wingtip is attached. The zinc chromate primer does not seem to have been applied to this wing in the photo of the top of the wing yet. On top of all that was sprayed at least one coat of aluminized lacquer paint. The zinc primer and topcoats probably sealed the rivets from the 40% chord back to the trailing edge. Today we use high solids primers to fill flush rivets. Eventually, wing flex and twist will crack the paint around the rivet heads and it will flake off in little circular round divots exposing the rivet head on some rivets, not all. In no way will it tear sheets of paint off the wing surface. Mechanical wear will also thin the topcoats and expose primer and smoother underneath but that may take a while. Abrasion such as rain, sleet, snow and dirt will eventually wear through the paint on the leading edges of the wings if the finish is not maintained and there is photographic evidence of this type of wear on wings but not to any degree of extremity.

 

Now, if we look at the combat records of WWII Mustang units, particularly in the UK/ETO, we will most likely find that while some aircraft conducted several sorties in a day on occasion, from what I have read, the majority are a single sortie in a day and then, not necessarily every day. With very few exceptions aircraft are not exposed to the same combat conditions as armored fighting vehicles are. Yes, they did get dirty, especially on the undersides but in photos of aircraft based in the UK there is little evidence that these aircraft were subjected to extremes and were normally well maintained. Those aircraft deployed on the Continent at foward bases would be more shabby, for lack of a better word but those are the exceptions. Put yourself in the ground crews frame of mind: Would you want your pilot to take your plane out knowing that you had not done your very best to maintain the aircraft at its peak peformance and give him the highest degree of safety and best chance of success? Right, I didn't think so. Neither did those fellers.

 

If this red putty that Michael O'Leary describes is similar to bondo, I doubt it would have separated from the wing surface except under severe abrasion or harsh chemical treatment. Avgas is not a harsh chemical and does not destroy lacquer paint to the best of my knowledge. The brake fluid is the hydraulic fluid and is NOT in any way similar to automotive brake fluid that peels paint.

 

In the end, if you decide to build your kit with the joints sealed then go for it, if not, go for it. Lets just not create suppositions not grounded in fact.

 

Photo taken from: O'Learly, Michael. 2010. Building the P-51 Mustang, the Story of Manufacturing North American's Legendary World War II Fighter in Original Photographs. Specialty Press. MN (p.144)

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Great post TimC!!! Those are two of the photos I had planned on posting on the defunct INFO thread. That book by O'Leary is great and a must have for this stuff. And I completely agree with your statement:

"Put yourself in the ground crews frame of mind: Would you want your pilot to take your plane out knowing that you had not done your very best to maintain the aircraft at its peak peformance and give him the highest degree of safety and best chance of success? Right, I didn't think so. Neither did those fellers"

I also agree with all the statements regarding its really hard to pin down some very specific details, and you have to be pretty far off the mark for something to be "wrong".

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According to the book, "Building the P-51 Mustang" which I think every P-51 fan should own, they said that every plane left the factory with the wings puttied, and DuPont flat silver paint applied to cover the putty work. After a major overhaul in the field though, or just after use, the putty would tend to either chip away, or be removed by ground crews, and the wing would be re-painted in whatever paint was around.

 

 

So Peter, if you're planning to do a well-used bird, I wouldn't fill in the detail, but paint it in an aluminum single color, except for the gun bay doors. But if you're doing a factory fresh bird, I'd say fill in the detail, and do it with Flat Aluminum, like the Floquil Old SIlver, or Alclad Dull Aluminum.

 

 

I hope that helps.

 

 

Matt :party0023:

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Guest Ta152H1

According to the book, "Building the P-51 Mustang" which I think every P-51 fan should own, they said that every plane left the factory with the wings puttied, and DuPont flat silver paint applied to cover the putty work. After a major overhaul in the field though, or just after use, the putty would tend to either chip away, or be removed by ground crews, and the wing would be re-painted in whatever paint was around.

 

 

So Peter, if you're planning to do a well-used bird, I wouldn't fill in the detail, but paint it in an aluminum single color, except for the gun bay doors. But if you're doing a factory fresh bird, I'd say fill in the detail, and do it with Flat Aluminum, like the Floquil Old SIlver, or Alclad Dull Aluminum.

 

 

I hope that helps.

 

 

Matt :party0023:

 

That makes sense Matt but...are we 100% sure that the wings were re-painted and not left NMF?

Cheers

Lou

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Guest Ta152H1

Btw....just bought this book off eBay for a handful of Euros!I was about to purchase it last week but after reading Tim's post...another source of refs added to the library!

Cheers

Lou

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That makes sense Matt but...are we 100% sure that the wings were re-painted and not left NMF?

Cheers

Lou

 

 

Hey Lou. From that book I mentioned, they said that they were "supposed" to re-paint the wings. But in a high-stress combat situation, where you're trying to keep the birds in the air, I'm sure many weren't re-painted to spec, and left at NMF.

 

 

Matt

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Guest Ta152H1

Hey Lou. From that book I mentioned, they said that they were "supposed" to re-paint the wings. But in a high-stress combat situation, where you're trying to keep the birds in the air, I'm sure many weren't re-painted to spec, and left at NMF.

 

 

Matt

 

Oh...ok Matt! In fact that's EXACTLY what I meant...during those stressful days I think that refuelling,rearming,overhauling,tuning and double-checking was MUCH more important that a lick of paint!

Lou

Edited by Ta152H1
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Oh...ok Matt! In fact that's EXACTLY what I meant...during those stressful days I think that refuelling,rearming,overhauling,tuning and double-checking was MUCH more important that a lick of paint!

Lou

 

 

Exactly. There were so many more important things than re-painting the wings, that once they were overhauled, they probably were Natural Metal instead of perfectly re-painted. So I guess if someone is doing a factory fresh Mustang, then they would have to fill and paint the wing, but if it's an old, super beat-up fighter, then maybe it becomes more of a grey area? Mustangs and late-war Luftwaffe camo really seem to be some of the biggest grey areas we have in the model building world

 

 

Matt

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According to what I'm seeing and reading, the P-51D did not enter service until March 1944. That leaves a little over 13 months in the ETO and 18 months for PTO maximum combat useage. In terms of WWII aircraft at this date, there was no overhaul of airframes, they simply replaced the aircraft and tacked a "WW" (War Weary) on the serial no. of the older aircraft. I have not yet seen one P-51D so marked. P-51B's/C's, yes; D models, no. These aircraft did not get beat up that badly in general and those that did were simply replaced by newer aircraft. There are photos in Merle Olmsteads book on the 357th (Eagle Editions) that show derelict Mustangs in a pile after the war. I don't mean to say that cannibalization didn't occur, it most definitely did but these aircraft were not overhauled during the Second World War. The Korean conflict is another matter entirely but for the purposes of WWII, war material was plentiful and these aircraft were just replaced. You'll also see on the data plates of P-51D Mustangs, the serial number accompanied sometimes by the letter "R". This stands for Replacement which I believe meant the the aircraft was taken from the depot and assigned to a specific unit as a replacement aircraft for one that had either been damaged beyond repair, lost in combat or otherwise gone. That letter may have additional meaning that I'm not aware of and there is also another letter that was tacked onto the serial data block but what that letter is right now escapes me...it may have been an "N" for new.

Edited by TimC
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Guest Peterpools

Tim

Love the research and accurate information. Makes absolute sense as our production lines by1944 were producing airplanes at an incredible rate. That's one reason Mustang production was also done in Dallas as well as the NAA plant in Inglewood. Another example, Grumman Shifted production of the Avenger and Wildcat to GM, so it could concentrate solely on Hellcats incredible numbers: 500 per month and nearly 12,000 overall. So replacing badly damaged aircraft was something the American production lines could easily accomplish by that time frame.

Tim ... terrific research on the subject and surely answers a lot of questions.

Peter

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Some D's that were replaced with new a/c remained operational.

Preddy's 44-13321 was re-assigned to another pilot.

Same with Meyer's 44-15041.

 

Yes, that is correct. It happened regularly but how widespread it was, I cannot say. I do know Richard Peterson's original P-51D-5 was assigned to another pilot after he got a new one. I have a couple theories as to why this happened; neither one based on any large amount of substantiation so please take it with a grain of salt.

 

The first one, however unlikely, is that a pilot's aircraft that was in need of extended maintenance (such as changing a wing or fuselage) was taken to the backshops to have the work done. In the interim, the pilot was issued a replacement aircraft. When the first aircraft was finished it was listed as active and then reassigned to another pilot. Again, this is just a guess and is based on more of a "hunch" than any factual information so please do not tout this as fact as the facts have not been established to corroborate this theory.

 

The second theory as to why pilots were assigned to older aircraft may be a little more tangible. Naturally a fighter pilot always wants the latest and greatest and those that were fighting the airwar deserved nothing less. The higher ranking pilots (and sometimes the more adept) would be the first ones to get new equipment as it filtered into the theatre (that much is a fact). When they got a new aircaft, their old one would be reassigned to a lower time pilot (i.e. replacement pilot) or one that was using older equipment than the replacement they'd be getting (that's the theory).

 

That's the best of my thinking on the subject. The jury is still out and there may be entirely different reasons as to why aircraft were reallocated within a squadron or group and one or both of my scenario's may be totally off-base.

Edited by TimC
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