pappy1 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I have noticed that there is a large group of WW2 modelers on LSP, as well as many WW1, and Jet modelers, and one thing it seems to me that has been missing is the WW2 Dive Bombers and torpedo planes like the D3A Val, and B5N Kate,and B6N Jill, from Japan as well as the long promised TBD Devastator (What happened with that? )and the "Beast"Hell-diver ( Even the Bi Plane pre war version)and lets not forget our friends across the pond, the Fairey Barracuda, and the Bristol Beaufort torpedo version. While I realize that there have been some great kits produced (Fairey Swordfish, SBD Dive Bomber , and the excellent TBF Avenger,as well as the highly documented Stuka) There has been nothing at all from the Japanese side and I feel that this is an area that has been lacking especially now that 1/32 scale B-25 s (which I will buy) as well as the He 111 and the Ju 88 ( Which I own both )are coming out. WHERE IS MY DEVASTATOR????????? Whats your take on the subject .....Pappy1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
famvburg Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Regarding a Val & Kate, it's hard to imagine that Hasegawa or even Revell never made 1/32 kits long, long ago. They bear so much history, at least as much as the Zero, IMHO. Almost as baffling that no one ever made a T-6/SNJ/Harvard in 1/32. I'd go for an SB2C as well. I've waited decades for a 1/32 Skyraider. I can't say a TBD does anything for me, but if the price was right, I'd get it. I've bought a lot of Phillipine mahogany display models of these a/c that are roughly 1/32 (say, 1/28 - 135) just because they are available. My intent is to cut off the canopies & stretch-mold clear ones & add landing gear & a few other details since there aren't even vac kits available. The cool thing with that plan is that over the last 5 or 6 years that I've done that, we've gotten plastic or resin kits, so there's hope I guess. I have noticed that there is a large group of WW2 modelers on LSP, as well as many WW1, and Jet modelers, and one thing it seems to me that has been missing is the WW2 Dive Bombers and torpedo planes like the D3A Val, and B5N Kate,and B6N Jill, from Japan as well as the long promised TBD Devastator (What happened with that? )and the "Beast"Hell-diver ( Even the Bi Plane pre war version)and lets not forget our friends across the pond, the Fairey Barracuda, and the Bristol Beaufort torpedo version. While I realize that there have been some great kits produced (Fairey Swordfish, SBD Dive Bomber , and the excellent TBF Avenger,as well as the highly documented Stuka) There has been nothing at all from the Japanese side and I feel that this is an area that has been lacking especially now that 1/32 scale B-25 s (which I will buy) as well as the He 111 and the Ju 88 ( Which I own both )are coming out. WHERE IS MY DEVASTATOR????????? Whats your take on the subject .....Pappy1 Edited March 21, 2012 by famvburg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saber Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'd spring for a Helldiver, for sure.... Happy modeling, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mz826 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) There are certainly quite a few missing, all of which you would think would be excellent sellers. I would love a Val or Kate, I guess we just have to keep waiting, they have to come one day! Edited March 21, 2012 by mz826 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jack Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I have noticed that there is a large group of WW2 modelers on LSP, as well as many WW1, and Jet modelers, and one thing it seems to me that has been missing is the WW2 Dive Bombers and torpedo planes like the D3A Val, and B5N Kate,and B6N Jill, from Japan as well as the long promised TBD Devastator (What happened with that? )and the "Beast"Hell-diver ( Even the Bi Plane pre war version)and lets not forget our friends across the pond, the Fairey Barracuda, and the Bristol Beaufort torpedo version. While I realize that there have been some great kits produced (Fairey Swordfish, SBD Dive Bomber , and the excellent TBF Avenger,as well as the highly documented Stuka) There has been nothing at all from the Japanese side and I feel that this is an area that has been lacking especially now that 1/32 scale B-25 s (which I will buy) as well as the He 111 and the Ju 88 ( Which I own both )are coming out. WHERE IS MY DEVASTATOR????????? Whats your take on the subject .....Pappy1 Apparently at the bottom of the Pacific near the Carriers, Kaga, Akagi, Soryu, and Hiryu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pappy1 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 Apparently at the bottom of the Pacific near the Carriers, Kaga, Akagi, Soryu, and Hiryu. Hey don't forget the two right off of Jaluit Atoll. They couldn't find a gas station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 PAPPY ? WTF, are you back for good? Sorry to barge in here but...Will you PLEASE get ahold of me.....Harv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssculptor Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 FIGHTERS ARE GLAMOROUS - BOMBERS ARE DRAB WORKHORSES. When a typical male human sees a fighter airplane he sees a heroic knight of the air, facing his enemy one to one, mano a mano, a duel to the death. The fighter pilot is in a single person aircraft, like the knight of the old days on his horse, galloping into battle. Death or Glory! The bomber pilot, on the other hand, is driving a delivery truck, carrying a load of bombs which he drops on the enemy. No glory in that. I am not speaking of the importance of either mission, there the reverse is true. I am talking of how the male perceives himself piloting either aeroplane. Sorry but our unconscious interpretations are not logically controlled. They are what they are. So the manufacturers of toy and hobby items produce items which will be most desirous to the buyers. Obviously, over the years they have felt that the fighters will outsell the bombers. As an example look at the old Revell 1/32 kit of the Mitsubishi J2M Raiden (Jack). Who ever heard of this rather obscure aircraft? The Japanese produced only a mere 621 of these fighters. Yet 7,140 SB2C Helldivers were produced during WW2. So wouldn't it be logical to produce the Helldiver instead? In reality the purpose of the fighter aircraft is gain control of the air. Why? So the workhorses who do the important work of the air war can get on with their jobs. In World War One the most important mission of the aeroplane was to be the eyes of the artillery. The artillery delivered the bulk of the explosives in that war. The puny bomb loads of the aircraft at that early stage of their development were of secondary importance. General Otto von Below, HQ, Sixth Army. German Imperial Army, wrote that the main object of fighting in the air is to enable our photo registration and photo reconnaissance to be carried out and at the same time to prevent that of the enemy. All other tasks, such as bombing raids, machine gun attacks and even distant reconnaissance in trench warfare must be secondary to this objective. So long as the execution of the main task is not ensured all available forces must be employed for this purpose. Thus the role of the fighter aircraft in WW1 was to prevent the enemies' reconnaissance aircraft from doing their jobs and to protect their own side's two place aircraft when they did the same task. An we have seen in the Second World War the delivery of aerial bombs gained importance and was on a par with reconnaissance and artillery direction. Of course the bomber commands will insist they were more important and won the war all by themselves. Also, as the war progressed, some of the fighter aircraft proved to be good in the light bomber role, which really makes them bombers, not fighters. In any event, as a young man would you want to be piloting a large bomber in WW2, thus being a sitting duck for the attentions of the cannon and machine gun fire of the defending fighter aircraft? Or would you want to be the heroic fighter pilot defending your country against the plodding bomber aircraft of the enemy? I hope you now understand why the manufacturers of model and toys have preferred to produce the fighter planes rather than the bombers. Personally I prefer the bombers. I'd love to see 1/32 scale models of the noted bombers, like the American Helldiver, Devastator, the British Skua, Barracuda, Japanese Val, Kate, Jill, Betty, Italian Sm-79, German Do-17, Do-215, do-217, etc. etc. Finally, forward thinking companies like Revell/Germany, WnW (Gotha) and a few others are producing bombers. Its about time. Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coogrfan Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Interesting theory, but it fails to explain why every one of the aircraft in question have been released numerous times in the smaller scales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pappy1 Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 FIGHTERS ARE GLAMOROUS - BOMBERS ARE DRAB WORKHORSES. When a typical male human sees a fighter airplane he sees a heroic knight of the air, facing his enemy one to one, mano a mano, a duel to the death. The fighter pilot is in a single person aircraft, like the knight of the old days on his horse, galloping into battle. Death or Glory! The bomber pilot, on the other hand, is driving a delivery truck, carrying a load of bombs which he drops on the enemy. No glory in that. I am not speaking of the importance of either mission, there the reverse is true. I am talking of how the male perceives himself piloting either aeroplane. Sorry but our unconscious interpretations are not logically controlled. They are what they are. So the manufacturers of toy and hobby items produce items which will be most desirous to the buyers. Obviously, over the years they have felt that the fighters will outsell the bombers. As an example look at the old Revell 1/32 kit of the Mitsubishi J2M Raiden (Jack). Who ever heard of this rather obscure aircraft? The Japanese produced only a mere 621 of these fighters. Yet 7,140 SB2C Helldivers were produced during WW2. So wouldn't it be logical to produce the Helldiver instead? In reality the purpose of the fighter aircraft is gain control of the air. Why? So the workhorses who do the important work of the air war can get on with their jobs. In World War One the most important mission of the aeroplane was to be the eyes of the artillery. The artillery delivered the bulk of the explosives in that war. The puny bomb loads of the aircraft at that early stage of their development were of secondary importance. General Otto von Below, HQ, Sixth Army. German Imperial Army, wrote that the main object of fighting in the air is to enable our photo registration and photo reconnaissance to be carried out and at the same time to prevent that of the enemy. All other tasks, such as bombing raids, machine gun attacks and even distant reconnaissance in trench warfare must be secondary to this objective. So long as the execution of the main task is not ensured all available forces must be employed for this purpose. Thus the role of the fighter aircraft in WW1 was to prevent the enemies' reconnaissance aircraft from doing their jobs and to protect their own side's two place aircraft when they did the same task. An we have seen in the Second World War the delivery of aerial bombs gained importance and was on a par with reconnaissance and artillery direction. Of course the bomber commands will insist they were more important and won the war all by themselves. Also, as the war progressed, some of the fighter aircraft proved to be good in the light bomber role, which really makes them bombers, not fighters. In any event, as a young man would you want to be piloting a large bomber in WW2, thus being a sitting duck for the attentions of the cannon and machine gun fire of the defending fighter aircraft? Or would you want to be the heroic fighter pilot defending your country against the plodding bomber aircraft of the enemy? I hope you now understand why the manufacturers of model and toys have preferred to produce the fighter planes rather than the bombers. Personally I prefer the bombers. I'd love to see 1/32 scale models of the noted bombers, like the American Helldiver, Devastator, the British Skua, Barracuda, Japanese Val, Kate, Jill, Betty, Italian Sm-79, German Do-17, Do-215, do-217, etc. etc. Finally, forward thinking companies like Revell/Germany, WnW (Gotha) and a few others are producing bombers. Its about time. Stephen I agree partly with your logic that the fighters are much more glamorous than bomber/torpedo planes, but some builders (Like myself) that study a certain period, or war, like to have the whole collection so to speak of their chosen countries attack force. I happen to be heavily into WW2 naval aircraft and for me I don't really feel that that I have a complete set without a few attack planes ( particularly Japanese ) but I have to concede that you are probably right about manufactures only making hot items that will sell well,however I still think that there is a rather large market out there for some attack planes, as long as they are not to obscure.........Neal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssculptor Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Interesting theory, but it fails to explain why every one of the aircraft in question have been released numerous times in the smaller scales. Probably because it cost so much more to make the 1/32 scale models, which uses a lot more plastic. Because of the size and cost of the larger kits they will sell a lot more of the 1/72 scale and 1/48 kits than the big 1/32 ones. Also the great oil shortage in the early 1970's may have had a negative influence on the manufacturers who use plastic. The larger kits use a whale of a lot more plastic than the smaller kits and since plastic is made from oil the high cost will inhibit sales. Over the years almost all the aircraft have become available in 1/72 scale, including both injection molded kits and the vacuform and resin models. There were fewer kits available in 1/48 until the 1980s when the quarter scale kits started to pick up. There were a small number of 1/32 scale kits in the 1950-70's era and then the manufacturers just stopped producing new ones. Now 1/32 is picking up, possibly since there are so many different aircraft now offered in 1/72 and 1/48 scales that the next untapped market has to be 1/32 scale. But still, up to now bombers have been almost taboo in 1/32 scale. We shall see what develops in 1/32 as the recession recedes (we hope). Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coogrfan Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Probably because it cost so much more to make the 1/32 scale models, which uses a lot more plastic. Because of the size and cost of the larger kits they will sell a lot more of the 1/72 scale and 1/48 kits than the big 1/32 ones. Well, yeah ... but isn't this an entirely separate line of reasoning from the "modelers want to be fighter jocks" theory you put forth previously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek B Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Interesting point? Historically, attack aircraft desrve a great deal more recognition than they really get - it's a little like the pick-up truck doing all of the hard thankless tasks whilst the the Ferrari gets all the fame and praise, and of course, Ferrari's are always going to be more popular than pick-up's in terms of glamour and performance, and so it is with aircraft (there are always the few exceptions of course - the Skyraider is certainly big enough to carry a torpedo, but it is doing quite OK on it's own as an attack aircraft). I think that we probably will see more attack types appear in the future as more diverse subjects are sought and modeller's demands in taste change. Given the number of twin-engined medium bombers (and larger) starting to appear or planned in 1/32 scale, I do not see size or amount of plastic required as a barrier here? The key factor will most likely be customer demand, so shout it long and loud, and it will probably happen (it has/will with the P-61 Black Widow, and who thought that we would ever see one of those in IM form in 1/32 scale?). ...Time to make attack aircraft sexy!... Derek Edited March 22, 2012 by Derek B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Apparently at the bottom of the Pacific near the Carriers, Kaga, Akagi, Soryu, and Hiryu. ...excellent conclusion.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98Wrangler Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 The Naval Air Museum in Pensacola has two TBD's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now