Question about "internal" colors for an early 190D

[BlackDog]

Hi all,

 

Being not a luftwaffe expert, I am not sure about which color to use for several parts of my 190D-9, mostly in those areas :

 

- Tail wheel fork

- Inner sides of tail wheel bay

- Inner sides of engine cowl flaps

- Circular radiator, as seen from the front cowl opening and from the rear cowl flaps when opened

 

For each of those areas/parts, do you know the right color, is this RLM02, or natural metal, or something else ? My D-9 is werknummer 210003 and so is the third D-9 ever built in August 44, that qualifies for an 'early' plane.

 

Thanks a lot for your answers,

 

Chris

[maverick728470]

Blackdog,

Use the RLM 02 for the wheels wheels,tail wheel strut.For the cowl flaps,use the RLM 66 or flat black.Either one should work on the flaps.Paint the radiator on mine D-9 a dark metalic grey or at times a flat black.But someone else might disagree here.Or again.Jerry crandall to the rescue.Larry

[MikeMaben]

Hi Chris, a good rule of thumb is that 02 was the basic primer

color. Other oddball colors were found here and there, but the

basic airframe primer was 02. 66 was used where it's anti-glare

properties were needed. Always keep in mind regarding the use

of various colors by the LW that there were ALWAYS exceptions

to just about every rule.

Mike

a

b

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...which is what makes it so much fun

[ChrisS]

You cannot go too far wrong on LW stuff with this formula:

 

RLM 02 for all internal areas (flaps, bays, etc)

 

RLM 66 for all cockpit surfaces (incl panel)

 

But if you are down to the Werknummer, then Jerry Crandal is your man

[BlackDog]

Thanks for your replies, guys...

 

You are quite correct, and here is the answer from Jerry Crandall :

 

Hi Chris,

The areas you mention are as follows for Dortenmann's

W.Nr.210003: Tail wheel fork RLM 02.Insides of the tail wheel bay RLM 02. Insides of cowl flaps RLM 02.Raidiator (both sides)aluminum.By the way, the color of the master compass is also RLM 02. HTH,can't wait to see the finished model. What time frame are going to represent, "Red 1", "Yellow 1" or "Black 1" ?

 

Cheers, Jerry

 

Note : I am doing this Fw as "Black 1" in March 45.

[Guest Vincent]

-* account deleted *-

Edited July 7, 2022 by Vincent

[BlackDog]

Hi Vincent,

 

thanks for your input.

 

Anyway now my scratch-built master compass is enclosed deep inside the fuselage, and I will not (could not) change its color (bare metal)... Anyway it is only barely seen from the opened trap door...

 

Chris (BlackDog)

[Guest Vincent]

-* account deleted *-

Edited July 7, 2022 by Vincent

[Derek B]

Vincent (and others),

 

Thanks for the useful info' (it is just the type of reference I was looking for in an earlier post). Can anyone show what RLM 02 looks like please? (I am having problems trying to find an accurate colour match).

 

Many thanks

 

Derek

[Tony O]

Derek,

when you say accurate what are you comparing it to?

Take it out of context i.e. that the model has no direct point of reference next to it, then any shade (within reason) of farbton 02 will look correct.

 

What is more important is how dissimilar colours look in relation to each other.

What I mean is tonal values and consistencies. Differences on tonal value can occur when dissimilar paint types are used . i.e. tamiya acrylic and aeromaster enamels

Also worth bearing in mind was the way the original colours were mixed and the base tint used by subcontracted paint manufacturers. In the latter part of the war organic compounds were tried and many stocks of paint became either mixed or discontinued by varying RLM directives, so that aircraft manufacturers and sub assembly contractors were very often using shades of paint that bore no similarity to the original RLM spec. Eagle Editions do (did?) a superb colour chart from the original Warnecke und Bohm manufacturers paint chips.

 

Its also worth bearing in mind that colour is an absorbent/reflective surface and depending on the light that is striking it any colour can look radically different under differing atmospheric conditions, all this without the effects of poor application, poor primer or the use of a stronger primer ( red oxide perhaps) under a lighter top coat. Add a wash weathering and shading to your 02 and it will look different again.

I've always thought the old aeromaster acrylic 02 was a decent match and does the job well enough.

Of course there's always someone out there who'll claim their grand-dad worked in a certain german paint factory from 1939 -45 and used to bring samples home with him to paint the shed with.....

 

As an aside, the use of the prefix RLM is a misnomer in relating to Luftwaffe colour. The RLM issued directives on the use and application of colour and referred to these colours as Farbton 66 etc. As the paint manufacturing was contracted to several manafacturers it is erroneous to describe the paint as originating from the RLM itself. I believe the RLM did issue strict guidlines on the constituent parts of the particular colour and it was shortages in these tints that led to the late war situation of more than one shade of a particular colour. There are whole articles written by learned people on the varieties of farbton 84 to illustrate this point.

 

HTH, and don't get too hung up on exact colour values!

cheers

LSP Tony

[Derek B]

LSP Tony,

 

Thank you for your very technical description of the Farbton 02 colour. I understand what you tell me, and it makes perfect sense (there are similar parallels with USAAF and RAF colours). What I really meant was that I do not know what Farbton (RLM) 02 looks like! All that I have for reference is the Humbrol paint guide (which tells me to mix it, which I am reluctant to do). So, in essence, I am looking for a readily available paint in the (approximate) right shade/colour to paint my model. I have exactly the same issue with Fabton 66 colour. In the UK, we only have a fairly limited choice of paints (depending on what the model shops decide to stock). This only leaves mail order or trips to model contests to stock up on any useable colours. Our main brands are Humbrol, Extracolor, Tamiya, plus any acrylics that can be imported from america. Thanks for your advice.

 

Regards

 

Derek

[ChrisS]

 

02

 

 

 

66

[Tony O]

Hi Derek,

being a Brit also I know what you mean and being stuck in the wilds is even worse , its mail order (usually with a kit otherwise they won't send it) or Telford and Shropshire is an awful long way from home.

 

02 is a grey with a distinct green cast to it. I've a spare bottle of aeromaster acrylic plus an old tin of xtracolour enamel which I don't use anymore

You're welcome to these if you want them.

if you contact me off board at blackdog20037@hotmail.com

 

Apologies if I was a bit heavy handed with the reply, there are so many folk who get obsessive with exact colour match issues.

It can be a fascinating subject or incredibly boring depending on your outlook!

Similar discussions about US chromate interior colours pop up from time to time, I think someone said that the colour wasn't actually a designated colour and was basically a factory mix of whatever was at hand!

cheers

Tony

PS attached is a word doc with some swatches, the 02 swatch is a fair approx of the colour.

 

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mar...8892/818283.htm

RLM.doc

[Mark P]

Derek:

 

Much of the interest in the Luftwaffe comes from debating color schemes. That is one area where things have come along way since the days where every German aircraft was painted 65/70/71. We now know plenty more, yet there is still much to be learned.

 

If you want to get a good handle on Luftwaffe colors, there are a number of publications, unfortunately now out of print and very pricey on E-bay. The Monogram Color Guide is still used as a reference as are the Kookaburra books. Both came with color chips. Also try looking for Hikoki's book on German color. I believe it is sold out however. Historians are also eagerly awaiting Merricks book Luftwaffe Camouflage and Markings 1933-1945 due out soon. I think the fact that many of these titles are no longer available explains the interest that exists in this area. You could also try purchasing the color chips from Eagle Editions. I reviewed them here:

 

http://www.largescaleplanes.com/reviews/Af.../ColorChips.htm

 

This is the best means to get an accurate indication of the colors you want to use.

 

HTH

 

Mark Proulx

[Jerry Crandall]

Hi all;

 

I hate to argue with Vincent about the color of the master compass from a D-9 but you can't argue with hard evidence. At the foot of my desk where I am posting my reply is a master compass taken from a D-9 that was brought to the United States in 1945. It is in absolute, pristine condition and has not seen the light of day from 1945 until a few months ago when it was removed from a closet and given to me.

 

Color is unmistakably RLM 02. Dr. Charlie Metz, Luftwaffe enthusiast and recent visitor to our offfice, and Bernd Wilmer from Germany another recent visitor, both saw it and can confirm the color.

 

Tony - yes, you are right - most color specification drawings for a/c such as the Bf 109, Ta 152C and Me 262 don't refer to the colors as "RLM", but instead "Farbton" 81 or whatever. However, all of the original recipies from Warnecke and Bohm paint company are titled RLM 71 or whatever, etc.

 

HTH

Jerry