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Derek B

F-4B Conversion - Your thoughts and ideas (again) please?

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[.I might even see if Eli (Zotzs decals) wants to play?:unsure: :)

 

Whre's the ball? Hand it over, D!

 

 

OK...QF-4 drones, here we come! (just think of all of those many differing faded colour schemes to choose from, complete with dayglo orange to cheer things up!:D )...This could be one of the quicker upgrades to complete?

 

Cheers

 

Derek

(Who had better start putting a list together before he starts to forget things!)

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[.I might even see if Eli (Zotzs decals) wants to play?:unsure: :)

 

Whre's the ball? Hand it over, D!

 

 

But please please not solely the drone sheet

 

Jozef

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The best start point for a F-4b conversion is the Tamiya C/D. I have the old CAM stuff and was lucky enough to "pick" my sets, so they are not warped nor pinholed. The biggest issue with that set....The set does not flatten out the bottom of the wings. The work around is to fill and sand flat. Not impossible but it is still a pain in the &%&*^^. No one does a proper B cockpit. The J pit is drastically different. The pit has held me off form the conversion.

 

The C/E stuff is very nice better in detail, cleaner cast, more complete, but still no proper B pit.

 

 

Rob

 

Sorry I'm a little late with this but....

 

Tamiya's F-4J cockpit is closer to an F-4B/N than J since the front IP is actually a the AF C type from the top down to the Dog Bone.

 

The first two pictures are of the cockpit of my Tamyia F-4J and I have highlighted the weapons selection panel in red in the second one. It was a late night and as I was working on the kit with an Edurad PE set using detail and scale's F-4 Phantom II Part 3 USN & USMC versions. It was a late night and when I went to remove the details off of the kit IP to add the Edurad PE set, I thought it was strange to remove some pretty good details (the raised button and lights) to replace it with a flat PE panel so I went to my reference and looked at the IP panel photo on page 35. There was the little red button and lights so I thought Aha..... Too bad I didn't see that I was looking at the "F-4N COCKPITS and not the F-4S COCKPITS on page 37. Like I said it was late at night. I wouldnt have known I had made the mistake, except that Lt. Col. John Sweeney USMC ret (a former F-4B/J/S RIO and later Pilot) took a look at the pictures and informed me of my boo boo . The third picture is form an F-4B training manual and as you can see, not only is the weapons selection panel closer to the F-4B/N so is the radar scope.

 

3ce15653.jpg

 

d1183727.jpg

 

F-4B_Front_IP.jpg

 

As for the rear cockpit, the biggest difference besides the MB Mk H-5 seats in the B prior to 1972 is the location of the radar azimuth/slew control unit and handle. In the J the unit and handle are on the lower IP center console just below the radar scope. In the F-4B this unit and handle are on the right hand side of the radar scope attached to the cockpit wall.

Edited by Mark B.

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with all the talk of a conversion...nobody(least that I've seen) has mentioned price. a complete conversion set, cockpit, wings, exhaust, tires, etc. will cost a fortune and bump up an already espensive kit cost before you even open the box. how available is the Tamiya C/D kit these days????

 

Bruce

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But please please not solely the drone sheet

 

Jozef

 

 

Hopefully, Eli will produce some decals that will cover all of my Phantom upgrades and conversions, however, that is really up to him. I will keep in touch with him and keep him informed of my progress, then he can decide what best to produce?

 

Cheers

 

Derek

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Sorry I'm a little late with this but....

 

Tamiya's F-4J cockpit is closer to an F-4B/N than J since the front IP is actually a the AF C type from the top down to the Dog Bone.

 

The first two pictures are of the cockpit of my Tamyia F-4J and I have highlighted the weapons selection panel in red in the second one. It was a late night and as I was working on the kit with an Edurad PE set using detail and scale's F-4 Phantom II Part 3 USN & USMC versions. It was a late night and when I went to remove the details off of the kit IP to add the Edurad PE set, I thought it was strange to remove some pretty good details (the raised button and lights) to replace it with a flat PE panel so I went to my reference and looked at the IP panel photo on page 35. There was the little red button and lights so I thought Aha..... Too bad I didn't see that I was looking at the "F-4N COCKPITS” and not the “F-4S COCKPITS” on page 37. Like I said it was late at night. I wouldn’t have known I had made the mistake, except that Lt. Col. John Sweeney USMC ret (a former F-4B/J/S RIO and later Pilot) took a look at the pictures and informed me of my “boo boo “. The third picture is form an F-4B training manual and as you can see, not only is the weapons selection panel closer to the F-4B/N so is the radar scope.

 

3ce15653.jpg

 

d1183727.jpg

 

F-4B_Front_IP.jpg

 

As for the rear cockpit, the biggest difference besides the MB Mk H-5 seats in the B prior to 1972 is the location of the radar azimuth/slew control unit and handle. In the J the unit and handle are on the lower IP center console just below the radar scope. In the F-4B this unit and handle are on the right hand side of the radar scope attached to the cockpit wall.

 

Very useful info Mark - Thanks :speak_cool:

 

My understanding also is that the F-4J makes a better starting point for the F-4B than does the F-4C/D kit. BTW, my conversion will solve the lower wing bulge problem that other conversion sets may have avoided.

 

Regards

 

Derek

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with all the talk of a conversion...nobody(least that I've seen) has mentioned price. a complete conversion set, cockpit, wings, exhaust, tires, etc. will cost a fortune and bump up an already espensive kit cost before you even open the box. how available is the Tamiya C/D kit these days????

 

Bruce

Acualy Bruce, the Tamiya kit is very easily found, especialy on Ebay. There are even stores that stock it.....Harv

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with all the talk of a conversion...nobody(least that I've seen) has mentioned price. a complete conversion set, cockpit, wings, exhaust, tires, etc. will cost a fortune and bump up an already espensive kit cost before you even open the box. how available is the Tamiya C/D kit these days????

 

Bruce

 

Of course Bruce, cost is always a major factor in the modeller's decision thinking process, which in many cases, makes the purchase a 'go, no go' thing. At this stage, I havent started anything as I am still gathering data, learning the subject manner and researching what has been produced before - and that is all before I have even got my hands on any plastic!

 

I do not have any specific pre-conceived ideas of exactly how I am going to master the conversions other than a basic idea of what is required. The reason for this is that there is (normally) more than one way to tackle any given conversion. This, in turn (especially with the more complex conversions that may require additional latter upgrade or add-on detail/conversion sets), requires quite significant fore-thought and engineering breakdown consideration, which then dictates the method of pattern making and complexity, and consequently, potential cost.

 

So the bottom line here is that I cannot predict a purchase cost at this stage, but I shall endeavour to produce a set that is detailed, easy to use and competively priced - this is the 'balance' I often refer to when considering how to go about mastering these conversion sets.

 

HTH

 

Derek

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G'day

Be looking forward to tracking the progress on the F-4 conversions.

Be into a couple of B's and several RAF/RN birds as well.

Glad to see you using the Tamiya kit as where I am the Revell kit is impossible to get where as the Tamiya series is better in every respect and easier to purchase.

Out of several Chinese based good quality traders they are around 110-130US shipped.

As for the B I'd love to see the cockpit included or available seperately. Remember a small market may exist alone for those who bought the Cutting edge set which lacked a cockpit. So you could pick up some extra sales.

Great work Derek!

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As for the rear cockpit, the biggest difference besides the MB Mk H-5 seats in the B prior to 1972 is the location of the radar azimuth/slew control unit and handle. In the J the unit and handle are on the lower IP center console just below the radar scope. In the F-4B this unit and handle are on the right hand side of the radar scope attached to the cockpit wall.

 

 

Correct but not fully correct!!! The port side of the rear cockpit is FULLY different and in 1/32th, this is quite obvious! The box sizes, location and details are completely different!

Moreover, the front IP differences are not limited to the handle! Even the radar scope shape is different! Don't ask me how I know, I've a F-4B in the works for ages and had access to the different cockpit layouts... There are even slight differences on the starboard side but they're not very obvious.

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Yikes.............my head is swimming with Phantom versions...........Bs.............Cs..............Ds..................Fs...............Gs male20-male-cross-eye-dizzy-smiley-emoticon-000062-large.gif

 

 

 

Precisely why you need to concentrate on those Hawk flaps and early seats Derek ;)

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G'day

Be looking forward to tracking the progress on the F-4 conversions.

Be into a couple of B's and several RAF/RN birds as well.

Glad to see you using the Tamiya kit as where I am the Revell kit is impossible to get where as the Tamiya series is better in every respect and easier to purchase.

Out of several Chinese based good quality traders they are around 110-130US shipped.

As for the B I'd love to see the cockpit included or available seperately. Remember a small market may exist alone for those who bought the Cutting edge set which lacked a cockpit. So you could pick up some extra sales.

Great work Derek!

 

Hmmm, cockpits!:rolleyes: - see my response to Thierry's post.

 

Derek

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