USMC F-4B

[phasephantomphixer]

Super work with a thincrust wing conversion (having some pizza right now) Barry. The "small vent/drain" aft of the intake is actually the outer airflow pressure tube for the Intake to Engine Bellmouth Ring to bypass air. It is the same tube you would see Crew Chiefs put the bungie of the FOD cover around. Used to be an actual test of the Bellmouth Ring when Power is on by "blowing" into the tube with your mouth! Phantoms were fun to work on for sure. I am finishing up full intakes for the new "Sierra Hotel Resin" that include not only this tube, but also the aft splitter door (with full bleed air vents) and correct splitter plates with the overlap details, etc. Should premier at the IPMS Nats this year. I hope your build continues well for you!

Thanks Mike, but I'm the unworthy one.

 

Well I’ve cut and fitted all replacement panels and doors to remove the "bulge" from the upper and lower wing and create the illusive "flat" wing of the F-4B/N.

After overcoming the brains desire to STOP me from cutting up the wing it was not that bad. It’s really just a lot of filing and sanding and of course the cutting and grinding on the wing itself. Now that I've all lower panels and doors fitted I still need to accomplish final trimming in to get better consistency in my panel lines.

 

Upper Wing:

 

Lower Wing:

 

The intakes were “no walk in the park”. I elected to use the DMold intakes instead of the CE or Rhino Models. Initially I planned to use the Rhino Models set but just did not like the way they were fitting but I believe they would have worked just as well as the DMold. I’ve got plenty of Phantoms to build so they will get used likely on my next foray into “Phantomology”.

 

 

One note about any intakes you use is that the panel lines I’ve identified in the photo “should not line up”. The panel line on the intake (resin piece) should be above that of the kit fuselage.

 

 

Photo of F-4D at Mighty Eight Air Force Museum. Also note small vent/drain; there is one on each side in same location.

 

 

Cheers for now, Barry

[Barry]

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

I was sure the vent/drain was part of the By-Pass Bell Mouth system but could not remember its actual function.

 

Sounds like you putting more of the “usually” overlooked detail into your work.

Your work on the Vari-Ramps is exactly where I’ll be taking mine once I get there. How are you creating the holes in the forward movable ramp?

 

The LE Flaps are continuing to prove challenging; I've made it to the outboard flap and have run into the fact that the Tamiya outboard wing panel at the leading edge is way too thick. At the outer end of the flap the kit wing is a scale 4.75" thick and the actual wing is only 1.5". Yesterday I measured the F-4C at the Mighty Eight Air Force Museum here in Savannah confirming this fact. I then spent the rest of the day thinning down the kit's outboard wing panel. I think I just might get it to work now.

 

I hope to be able to post some photos of the progress tomorrow.

 

I would love to see some photos of you work. I'm sure my efforts would benefit form you work and research. Good luck with your work and the IPMS meet! I will not be attending this year but next year's is right down the road and I plan on attending.

 

Barry

[Barry]

Quick update; thought I would be further along but the detail work on the end ribs for the flaps and the fact that as described in the post above the outboard wing and flap have proven to be quite a challenge. I’m not far enough along to post photos of the OB Flap and Wing Panel yet.

 

I did make progress on detailing the IB and OB ribs of the IB Flap.

 

Here’s what the IB Rib looks like with the flap down. You can see the reason I added the detail; it's very visible in spite of the lack of quality in the photo.

 

Inboard detail of Inboard LE Flap.

 

Outboard Rib detail of Inboard LE Flap.

 

I am in desperate need of a good photo or two of the IB Rib and OB Rib of the Center LE Flap as circle in red. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

 

I also discovered that the panel line between the IB and OB LE Flap segments is shaped wrong in the kit; oh joy! Not sure if I’ll tackle the change but you know me; what’s another exercise in flagellation!

 

The progress on all the other builds keeps me moving ever forward.

Thanks Guys and keep the Phantoms coming!

 

Barry

[Derek B]

Hang in there Barry! I know that these leading edge flaps probably feel like your nemesis at present, but it is a bit like climbing mount Everest - climbers do it because it is hard, not easy...

 

Fantastic detail work on those flaps Barry - especially the internal detail. I think that I may be tempted to of had a go at making the BLC shrouds and shields from aluminium litho sheet, mainly because the would not require painting and have the correct scale thickness effect (OK, more fiddly to glue, but probably well worth the effort to my mind, just look at what can be achieved with Geoff 'Ironwings' 1/24 P-51D Mustang build).

 

Best regards

 

Derek

Edited January 27, 2012 by Derek B

[Barry]

Thanks Derek,

 

Aluminum Litho Sheet; what is it used for? Sound like a good idea.

I thought about covering my styrene with foil to get the look because it's easier to glue.

The aluminum sheet should not be too hard to attach as you could just groove the leading edge of the wing with the tip of a #11 knife blade then attach it into the groove then tuck the other edge into the flap as on the actual aircraft.

I like the idea the more I think about it.

 

I'm still struggling with the outboard most end of the BLC shield and duct.

I'm not sure you can see in the photos but the angle is just too great and causing me problems with setting the center flap section. I believe like I found with the outboard wing and flap the main wing at the wing fold is too thick. It may be that the entire wing is too thick (I suspect it is) especially on the leading edge. If so that will send me back to the beginning as I will have to adjust the leading edge depth all along its length.

 

It all sounds like too much effort but it is a Phantom after all!

 

Barry

Edited March 14, 2011 by Barry

[Derek B]

Thanks Derek,

 

Aluminum Litho Sheet; what is it used for? Sound like a good idea.

I thought about covering my styrene with foil to get the look because it's easier to glue.

The aluminum sheet should not be too hard to attach as you could just groove the leading edge of the wing with the tip of a #11 knife blade then attach it into the groove then tuck the other edge into the flap as on the actual aircraft.

I like the idea the more I think about it.

 

I'm still struggling with the outboard most end of the BLC shield and duct.

I'm not sure you can see in the photos but the angle is just too great and causing me problems with setting the center flap section. I believe like I found with the outboard wing and flap the main wing at the wing fold is too thick. It may be that the entire wing is too thick (I suspect it is) especially on the leading edge. If so that will send me back to the beginning as I will have to adjust the leading edge depth all along its length.

 

It all sounds like too much effort but it is a Phantom after all!

 

Barry

 

Hi Barry,

 

AFAIK, aluminium litho sheet is used in the printing industry as part of their off-set printing processes (they will most like provide you with as many off-cuts as you like). The stuff is thicker than your average take-away food foil container and drinks can, but when anealed, is relly good stuff to work with (agin, Geoff is more conversant than I with this material - see his 1/24 Mustang build sequence here on LSP). You can also use used aluminium drinks cans, which may be a little thinner than litho sheet in thickness. By combining differing aluminium sheet thicknesses, you should be able to create (and shape) your BLCshields and ducting without (hopefully) too much stress.

 

If you are pretty sure that you have made your leading edge flaps as close as possible to the real thing and they still do not fit the wing, then I would certainly start to consider the wing itself as been suspect. Anything injection moulded is unlikely to maintain the scale finess and fidelity of the full size counterpart, especially wrt flying surface thickness (one way around this would be to take the wing leading edge back to the rear of the front spar and build a new one that matches your leading edge flaps?).

 

HTH

 

Derek

Edited March 15, 2011 by Derek B

[LSP_Matt]

Great work Barry. Really admiring your work on the flaps. As usual your styrene work is inspirational.

 

Cheers Matty

[Barry]

Derek, Matt,Thank you both.

 

I've done some quick comparisons between the Tamiya wing at what would be the leading edge spar and drawing published in Model Art. Based on them the Tamiya wing is about 3 scale inches too deep the entire length on the main wing.

 

This which would bring it in line with what I measured the outboard wing to be compared to the field measurements I made on the F-4C at the museum. The Model Art drawings compare well in this area also.

 

I’m going to reduce the thickness of the wing by .0975”. This will wreak havoc with what I’ve done on the LE flaps especially the IB section that I’ve done all the structure work to. It’s sure to cause me an issue forward of the wheel well at the wing/fuselage line as well. Oh well its only styrene; right?

 

I’m going to look into the Aluminum Litho and see where I can get some. If not I’ll go back to the original plan of styrene covered in foil which is much easier to glue.

 

Cheers

[Derek B]

...Good luck Barry, just ask if you need any help...

 

Derek

[Barry]

Flaps, Flaps, Flaps…………

 

It’s been an excellent weekend "no kidding" at the bench. Having correctly surmised that the kit wing leading edge was too deep thick was the problem. I reduced the LE at the wing fold by .055” and all is well in Phantom Land; it was like magic!

 

I set the depth at .180 overall at the fold line and tapered up to the kit’s wing root dimension of .380” which may still be too deep but I was unwilling to deal with the wing to fuselage line. The other critical dimension on the main wing was the point where the inner and outer flap sections meet. I wanted it to be very close to .300” it was .335”; I settled on .307” which allowed me to keep a clean straight taper from the root to the fold line.

 

Flaps Up!

 

 

 

Flaps Down!

 

 

Outboard Flap

 

Cener Flap

 

Inboard Flap

 

Several different views.

 

 

 

 

 

I think this post is just about maxed out with photos so I'll post another to show some of the rework to the wing fold and O/B Flap especially the inboard end. The forward Navigation Light and Wing Tip required a lot of rework as well due to the thinning out of the Outboard Wing Panel.

 

Barry

Edited March 20, 2011 by Barry

[timvkampen]

Nice work there Barry!!!

[Youngtiger1]

Dude, your like Barry Bonds with this project...TUCK...another home run. Take a lot of pics cause I want to try this conversion someday and you..you...No, You...YOUR GOOD

Edited March 23, 2011 by Youngtiger1

[Barry]

First thank you guys for the kind words.

 

Here are photos of the rework done to the outer wing panel, wing tip and flap.

Toughest part was thinning the wing tip. The kit tip is a scale 3” it should be 1.5"; kit measures right at 4"+.

Another deviation Tamiya took from the actual LE Flap is that the lower aft edge (hinge line) should be ahead of the upper aft edge. Found that one too late but I hoping to make it “look” closer.

 

Reshaping of the outer and main wing at the wing fold. I still have a little work to do here.

 

Thinning of the wing tip. Unaltered kit is on the left in photos.

 

Outboard Flap and BLC Duct/Shield is just about complete.

[Jamme]

Hello Barry.

Great "scratchbuild" skills you have!

Cheers,

Jamme

[timvkampen]

Barry,

 

Sure looks very on the mark there. I have the Wolfpack flaps as well...but maybe scratchbuilding is the better option.

 

HTH,Tim

Amsterdam, NL