Supermarine Spitfire Mk.IXc

[Combi]

And the last photo shows the first step with the underside, shading or better "lighting" of the panel and rivet lines with a mix of XF-19 Sky gray +white. I work some panels, and control sufaces in a different way, highlighting the center of the panels.

I concentrate the paint in the areas where the weathering will be stronger, due to the dirt left by the landing gear and the propeller.

In the next steps I will use other colors, sand, earth brown...but this will be in another episode

 

[dodgem37]

Very nice overall technique with effective results. I like the grid pattern you've created.

I'm glad to see you back again and posting.

 

Sincerely,

Mark

[Derek B]

¿Wood/resin blades? ...I have seen some b/n photos with scratches and I suppose it was metallic... I should look for more information...

 

Hi Juan,

 

Your Spitfire build looks superb - You really are very talented at building and finishing . To give you some idea of what I mean, below is an extract from the Aviation forums. It appears to be a later mark of Spitfire blade (probably a Griffon engined aircraft), but the basic design and construction did not really differ from that of the Mk.V Spitfire propellers.

 

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In my garage I have a single propeller blade, believed to be from a Spitfire MK-IV. I acquired it at an airshow in '93 with every intention to 'do something with it' but never had the time. It had obviously been used as a fence-post, resulting in some rust at the base. The covering has also come away from the wood near the base but generally the Rotoloid and leading edge brass is still in good condition over most of the blade.

The only reference number is near the tip. "R6781"

My guess from reading this thread is that it is probably an early Jablo with a Rotoloid covering. I would be interested to get an idea of its age and any other information relating to what its history might have been and also a probable value.

Many thanks

Andrew

Attached Thumbnails

 

 

 

Here is a Mk.V Spitfire with a damaged propeller to show what these things looked like after sustaining damage. As you can appreciate, the weathering of this type of blade would be somewhat different to the all all steel blade, although I can imagine seeing wear and tear (and scratches) along the blade leading edge sheathing strip. I am not an expert on Spitfire propellers by any means, and I am not even certain if metal equivalents were made of the Jablo blades for the Mk.IX Spitfire, but I do know that very many Spitfires from the earliest Rotol propellers up to the later Griffon engined aircraft utilised this Jablo type of blade.

 

 

HTH

 

Derek

[Edgar Brooks]

From quite early in the war, all Rotol propellors were made from wood, either Jablo, Hydulignum, or (rarely) Weybridge Wood. However, the wood would not have been seen, so there's no need to have a weathered prop showing wood grain. Often the wood was covered by a fine metal mesh, then coated in one of three different (black) plastics, Rotoloid, Rayoid, or Schwartz. The leading edges of the blades had a brass sheath, which was still covered by the plastic. The plastic would dull, with weathering, and the l/e sheath could become visible (more at the tip than the hub,) as well, but, when it got that far, the prop was due for repair/refurbishment (remember that any wear/chipping could adversely affect the propellor's balance.)

While I'm in my role as the theatre latecomer, who treads on everyone's toes as he enters, I have, unfortunately, to point out that the late Mark Spitfire is one airframe which is not suited to the pre-shading technique. From August, 1942, Supermarine (followed by Hawker and Bristol, at least) began to use synthetic "smooth" paints, rather than the dead matt hues of 1939-41. On the whole airframe, you had at least one coat of primer, followed by the camouflage colours, and the entire airframe was constructed with overlapping panels, the majority of which faced the rear, so dirt did not build up, nor did it ooze out of the joins. On the wings, the front 20-25%, back to, and including, the spar line, had all rivet "divots" and panel lines filled (just like the P-51,) then smoothed, then primed, smoothed, then painted with the smooth top colours, which were also smoothed again. Polish was not supposed to be used; if damage showed, the ground crew were supposed to smooth the surface with wet-and-dry, used wet, with the resultant sludge being cleaned off with plain water.

All this really means that Tamiya have done a lot of unnecessary work, since a 3/8" rivet, set flush with the surface, and covered with (at least) three coats of paint, reduced to 1/32 scale, would be virtually invisible.

Edgar

[dodgem37]

This is the reason I get up in the morning. To learn something new every day.

Very interesting, Edgar. Thank you.

 

Sincerely,

Mark

[Av8fan]

Hi Mr. Brooks,

 

Thanks for this info.

 

This could be a very interesting build for someone who has much more skill then I.

 

Combi,

 

Still a fantastic build. I have enjoyed every picture.

[Combi]

Thanks a lot for this information...

If I understood well, the scratches in the propeller could be correct.

The rivets, the aircraft I´m building is a Mk.IXc manufactured as MK.V and later upgraded to Mk.IX standard ¿Would be applicable the "law of rivets" of late Spitfires?...anyway I could do nothing now

 

 

[Edgar Brooks]

I'm always very wary of passing on this sort of information, on a WIP thread like this, since I fear that others will think that I'm trying to "score points," or want to trash others' hard work. I try to push people into getting hold of contemporary photos, like the one below, and ask them to study them; this is a Mk.II, built long before the smooth paint era, but should give a fairly good idea of how a Spitfire really did weather, with paint on the cowling (possibly due to the warmth of the engine, and a liberal coating of hot oil) remaining darker than the often-frozen remainder of the airframe.

Combi, I fully understand if you feel aggrieved at me, for apparently trying to "put down" your excellent work, but nothing could be further from the truth. And, yes, any airframe, built after August 1942, however, or whenever, it was started, should have the "smooth" paint technique used on it.

Edgar

[Av8fan]

Mr. Brooks, I don't think your being a spoilsport or trying to score points. You've always tried to help people from what I have seen. I hope Combi feels the same.

 

Your trying to pass on good information re finishing of the A/C.

 

But rather then us all get into a discussion and hijack this thread, maybe we could start a separate thread analyzing this photo and others like it so that we can discuss ways to achieve this finish on a scale kit. Maybe someone might even try it.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

I still think this build is fantastic.

[Combi]

Edgar, these photo is great and no, I´m not thinking that you are trying to put down my work

This discussions makes our hobby more amazing.

I have been recolecting books and photos before start painting, I wanted a well weathering aircraft and all information is welcomed.

 

In my collection of photos some photos shows clearly the panels and lines of rivets and others no, so what to do?... I think this is the point where the modeller´s brain must work harder and try to imagine (perhaps it isn´t the correct word) how the aircraft should look, mixing all the photos and looking for something in the middle between reality and aesthetic.

About the kit, I think Tamiya did a good work, rivets are very fine and in the upper camuflage they are not visible until you are close to the kit. However paint and weathering will remark some rivets and hide others, like in a operative aircraft, I think. Anyway I think that rivets always contibute to unify all the colors and weathering, making the paint more rich.

Really, the rivets doesn´t worry me like the propeller...but I will try to hide them a bit in the underwings.

 

Well, this is a classic and eternal discussion, like a correct RLM or the correct barnish for the aircraft finishing , but always is a rich talk

Some examples

 

 

 

[Kagemusha]

Great build, great thread, keep it coming...

[nmayhew]

Great build, great thread, keep it coming...

 

yes indeedy

 

some awesome painting and finishing Combi

 

and Edgar, some very interesting and thoughtfully presented points

 

thank you both for the most enjoyable read on LSP right now

 

Nick

[Out2gtcha]

Very cool and interesting pics all the way round..........

 

Brian

[PeterOlsen]

Its really great to see some paint on her now Juan and I love the weathering on the prop. Your work is truly spectacular and something very special. I'm busting with anticipation to see the next couple of stages.

 

As for the rivets.......Tamiya has gone to great pains to deliver such wonderful surface detail and it deserves to be emphasised by a brilliant artist such as yourself so I say go for it !!!!!

 

keep up the great work cheers Pete.

[Guest Ta152H1]

Juan,

rivets or not your Spit is coming along beautifully!

Cheers

Lou