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F4B conversion


stuey57

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Hi Guys,

 

Apologies for starting another thread and thus irritating all you F4 Phanatics out there but I need help !

I am just about to start an F4B conversion of the Tamiya kit and have tried in vain to detect exactly where the

chaff/flare dispenser panel location is on the fuselage. I have been told that Tamiya did not scribe it on the J kit ?

I have a myriad books on the Phantom but apart from one almost clear b&w picture in the aeroguide no. 25 Tiger Sqdn page 16,

I cannot find a proper location. All the plans and line drawings show virtually nothing. I have all the D&S books but again

nothing is clearly defined.

From what I can make out it is located somewhere behind the RAT panel on the port side and I think should be on both sides of

the fuselage. I would presume that these would be on the B and J models only (not forgetting the N & S)

 

I know that you will not dissappoint !

 

I would also like to thank some of you for your continued good wishes.

I am recovering slowly and am getting used to modelling from a bed.

It`s probably a bit like modelling at sea, nothing stays in one place for long !!

 

kind regards

Stuey

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I'm pretty certain that no F-4 ever had built in chaff/Flare dispensers , (other than the RF series for photo flares), most F-4's used chaff dispensers bolted to the inner pylons , and these only appeared later on in the F-4's life , (starting around 71-72)

 

I think the panels you are thinking about are those fitted to the RF series , they were installed in the fusalage approximatly in line with the start of the vertical tail , these as I said earlier were used to carry photo flares to illuminate the ground for recc work, but were only ever on the RF series, never the standard F series birds

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I’m pretty sure that until the "ALE" Chaff/Flare Dispensers were added to the pylons that only the RF had an Internal Dispenser and it was for Photo Flares. There were also Chaff/Flare Pods that were carried on pylons.

I also know for certain that chaff would be loose loaded into the Speed Brakes; deploy speed brakes and dispense chaff! Once again necessity becomes the mother for invention. It was a little messy and a one time shot but it was done!

 

Barry

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The dispensers on the inboard pylons were fitted to USAF versions, not USN F-4s. According to the DACO book, they are on the upper fuselage. One is aft of the hatch for the RAT and the other is in the same place on the opposite side. If you look at the black upper fuselage walkways on the USN F-4s, there is a notched area in the strip at the rear. This notched area is where the door of the dispenser is located. This photo shows that I'm describing.

 

http://www.vaq136.com/sdaerospace/sdaerospace-136b.jpg

 

The RAT hatch is the red strip. The notch in the black walkway aft of the RAT hatch is the dispenser hatch. I suspect they weren't on F-4Bs as built and got added later, by the time of -N conversion, if not before.

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The dispensers on the inboard pylons were fitted to USAF versions, not USN F-4s. According to the DACO book, they are on the upper fuselage. One is aft of the hatch for the RAT and the other is in the same place on the opposite side. If you look at the black upper fuselage walkways on the USN F-4s, there is a notched area in the strip at the rear. This notched area is where the door of the dispenser is located. This photo shows that I'm describing.

 

http://www.vaq136.com/sdaerospace/sdaerospace-136b.jpg

 

The RAT hatch is the red strip. The notch in the black walkway aft of the RAT hatch is the dispenser hatch. I suspect they weren't on F-4Bs as built and got added later, by the time of -N conversion, if not before.

 

Dave,

 

Awesome display; where is it located? :thumbsup:

 

I have often wondered about the "doors" you are referencing. I have noted them on USN F-4s only and have seen them described as "Aux Air Doors". Now I know only the lower doors between the engine bays as “Aux Air Doors” but then my first hand experience is only with USAF F-4s.

I am at loss to find them right now but I have pixs of USN F-4s in flight with these doors open but not nearly far enough to dispense chaff or flares. They appear open very similar to the upper aux air doors on the Spey engine F-4K/Ms. Is it possible that they served an original purpose of Aux Air then the existing opening and doors were utilized as Chaff/Flare Dispensers? They are also a single leaf door hinged on the inboard edge unlike the doors on the RF.

Very interesting question Stuey has posed. :blink:

 

Barry

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Thanks Guys

 

Yes the hatch is indicated by the notch in the walkway but I cannot find a close up of this hatch.

Unfortunately I don`t have the Daco book, perhaps I should, nevertheless does anyone have a close up

picture of it ?

 

I have found a photo from one of my books `Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club` page 62 which shows a VF114 F4B with this AN/ALE-29A chaff/flare dispenser hatch

open and empty and the only relatively good shot ,as I have previously said is from the aeroguide book on the F4J(UK)

 

Thanks for the confirmation Dave and I think you are correct in saying that early B's didn't have them as far as I can

ascertain anyway. Perhaps they were fitted in the mid 60's as a result of combat experience in Vietnam. Does anyone know ?

 

Kind regards

Stuey

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It is indeed an area that has not been comprehensively covered.

 

The Airdoc book dedicated to Navy birds has a picture of an F-4S with the opened door on the starboard side (pg 25). The launchers are visible and seem identical to the ones used on the recco airframes.

 

The Daco book has pictures of both sides doors as well as an upscaled (a little bit blurry) picture of the opened port one (pg38). The Willy Peeters drawings show clearly the doors.

 

It is indeed very probable that the launchers were not used on early airframes as the B had many differences according to the considered production block and posterior modifications. I guess this is even possible that there were more B subvariants than E ones!

 

Unfortunately, if later marks have been well covered in books, the situation is completely different for the early ones...

 

BTW, if you want to build an F-4B, you've to purchase the Daco book as this is the best source to scratchbuild a correct B rear pit... Unfortunately, I cannot help you as my scanner is dead...

 

HTH

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It is indeed an area that has not been comprehensively covered.

 

The Airdoc book dedicated to Navy birds has a picture of an F-4S with the opened door on the starboard side (pg 25). The launchers are visible and seem identical to the ones used on the recco airframes.

 

The Daco book has pictures of both sides doors as well as an upscaled (a little bit blurry) picture of the opened port one (pg38). The Willy Peeters drawings show clearly the doors.

 

It is indeed very probable that the launchers were not used on early airframes as the B had many differences according to the considered production block and posterior modifications. I guess this is even possible that there were more B subvariants than E ones!

 

Unfortunately, if later marks have been well covered in books, the situation is completely different for the early ones...

 

BTW, if you want to build an F-4B, you've to purchase the Daco book as this is the best source to scratchbuild a correct B rear pit... Unfortunately, I cannot help you as my scanner is dead...

 

HTH

 

Thanks HTH,

 

I don`t think my wife will be very happy if I purchase yet ANOTHER book on the Phantom. The poor woman has done her best to buy me

the time to be able to this project !

I should be able to manage with what I have and make some kind of educated guess.

 

Kind regards

Stuey

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