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P-51D 'Nooky-Booky IV'

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Alright, time for some dihedral pics. Until I get a consensus otherwise, this is pretty much where it's going to be. Got an afternoon for my primer to dry before I start slapping this together, so I'll check back later on tonight and look for input. From the rear;

 

 

 

post-4413-1262552250.jpg

 

 

 

Slightly different angle;

 

 

 

post-4413-1262552295.jpg

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Full-on rear view to show what the kit gives. Doesn't look off to me, but I dunno? :mental:

 

 

 

post-4413-1262552418.jpg

 

 

 

And from the front. If it's off, it sure is real close? I'll check back later on tonight after I have my nappy-time (geting old is Sooo soothing.) and see what the vote is. If I don't hear nuthin, I'll just go on my fat,dumb, happy way and do it like this. :wacko: Later all, Russ

 

 

 

post-4413-1262552557.jpg

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I'll just go on my fat,dumb, happy way and do it like this.

Hi buddy,

 

You just do that, looks fine too me.

 

Rick.

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Russ

 

According the well known reference drawing "P-51D/K dimensions" (N.A. origin?) which can be seen for example in the D&S B. Kinzey book, wing dihedral is noted as 5°, front view, per each wing (x3 guns common horizontal axis to the horizontal ref.).

By comparing with a "170° caliber" the Hasegawa total wing angle looks to be too flat.

(to confirm, I just put a sheet of cardboard cutting with an angle of 170° to my monitor screen on your last picture...).

ps: but I also have the kit parts in my hand ...both Hasegawa and... Dragon which is really better ...but i love and enjoy the job you're doing...

 

Raphael :lol:

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Whah hah! Well this update might interest a few persons thinking of building up the Hasegawa kit for sure. (Don't follow this guinea pig Big Matt, we'd BOTH be running on that funny little wheel getting nowhere quick! :DodgeBall: )

Heeey Rick, howse my buddy getting on with his new year?! Ya know, I thought the dihedral looked OK too.....and it is..... but only too a point!!!! :evil_laugh: Thanks to Raphaels hard numbers he was so kind to provide (THANKS my friend! :evil_laugh: ) I decided to do a little experiment earlier. Had the elves busy making up a jig of sorts to actually see what was going on here,....and it was quite the epiphany! Enough blatherings; let me show ya'll what I found out with a little help from Mr. Geometry. (gah, I'm on vacation and doing 'cipherings' was kinda tough)

Here's the start of my jig. 5 degrees (I got 175 degrees Raphael?) from the horizontal.

 

 

 

 

post-4413-1262608131.jpg

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OK, here's the jig set up with the Hasegawa wing on the bottom, and the Dragon wing on top. Can't believe while I was robbing parts off the Dragon kit, I never thought to take Raphaels suggestion of taking the wing out of the cellophane mocking it up and comparing the two. Doooooh! :evil_laugh: Well, without knowing the dihedral was 5 degrees THRU THE CENTERLINE of the guns I wouldn't have known whether either was correct at the time.

Note the difference in the angle of the wings. BUT! Notice also that the Hasegawa wing is exactly at 5 degrees of dihedral?! :evil_laugh: This gave me pause until I remembered Raphaels concise phrase of 'THRU THE CENTERLINE' of the guns. This changes the entire equation and angle of the wing! Whoohoo! Soooo, this is what I meant about Hasegawa getting the it sorta right.

 

 

 

post-4413-1262608951.jpg

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This was definitely a lesson in 'illusions', and as usual.....know what the magician knows and it's no longer 'magic'. Here's the Hasegawa wing laid out in the jig with a line thru the center of the wing root thru the gun openings. Yeah, the wing is 5 degrees of dihedral, but not thru the plane of the guns. It IS about 1-1-1/2 degree low. The 2 red lines should be parallel.

 

 

 

post-4413-1262609260.jpg

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Here's the Dragon wing. First impression was it's got too much dihedral according to my jig, but not thru the centerlines of the guns. 2 red lines are now parallel even though there's a gap of 3mm (?) at the wingtip. Interesting.

 

 

 

post-4413-1262609620.jpg

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So yeah, even though it's only about 1-1-/2 degrees difference, look what it does to the dihedral of the wing. Elves already have their masks and hands sanitized and surgery on the Hasegawa wing has already commenced. Might take this opportunity to correct that spar location? Dunno, I'll have to see what-all gets chopped out eventually. :yahoo:

Thanks for the timely info Raphael, if nothing else detail-wise....I want to get the basic shape right on this build. That dihedral is a big part of it. Keep an eye on me buddy, I'm no Mustang 'smexpert' and I'm just trying to bumble my way thru this thing in anticipation of doing a few more. More pics as this progress! (regress? :lol: ) Later, Russ

 

 

 

post-4413-1262610313.jpg

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This was definitely a lesson in 'illusions', and as usual.....know what the magician knows and it's no longer 'magic'. Here's the Hasegawa wing laid out in the jig with a line thru the center of the wing root thru the gun openings. Yeah, the wing is 5 degrees of dihedral, but not thru the plane of the guns. It IS about 1-1-1/2 degree low. The 2 red lines should be parallel.

post-4413-1262609260.jpg

 

 

Hi Russ,

 

I think Hasegawa got it right. For some reason, unknown too me anyway, the guns were parallel to the ground instead of the wingdihedral, so that explains the difference in angle. Now I must say I read this somewhere on the P51 SIG site, I ain't that clever too figure those things out myself.

 

I am doing allright now, gathering info for the inevitable Mrs Virginia. Got time now, it's still freezing so I cannot work.

 

Rick.

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Hi Russ,

 

I think Hasegawa got it right. For some reason, unknown too me anyway, the guns were parallel to the ground instead of the wingdihedral, so that explains the difference in angle. Now I must say I read this somewhere on the P51 SIG site, I ain't that clever too figure those things out myself.

 

I am doing allright now, gathering info for the inevitable Mrs Virginia. Got time now, it's still freezing so I cannot work.

 

Rick.

 

Hi Rick

 

Really sorry, but as I can read in the D&S part 2 p.21 P-51D Wing details

"At right are the same guns shown from the front. Unlike the earlier Mustang variants, these guns were mounted in line with the dihedral of the wing rather than being parallel to the ground line".

 

From my side here is a pic of what we must have after modification of the Hasegawa dihedral (something like that...)

diedre170hasegawaP-51Dcorrig.jpg

 

 

Raphael :yahoo:

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Really sorry, but as I can read in the D&S part 2 p.21 P-51D Wing details

"At right are the same guns shown from the front. Unlike the earlier Mustang variants, these guns were mounted in line with the dihedral of the wing rather than being parallel to the ground line".

 

Hi Raphael,

 

I only have part 1 :lol: , so I guess I must be wrong here :yahoo:

 

Rick.

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Thanks for the timely info Raphael, if nothing else detail-wise....I want to get the basic shape right on this build. That dihedral is a big part of it. Keep an eye on me buddy, I'm no Mustang 'smexpert' and I'm just trying to bumble my way thru this thing in anticipation of doing a few more. More pics as this progress! (regress? :lol: ) Later, Russ

 

Hi Russ

 

Thanks for kind words but it's really a pleasure to read at your tutorial, perfectly done.

In the overall shape of a plane, and even more with such a bird "THE P-51D", to my eyes a correct wing dihedral is one of the most important characteristic.

 

I don't have anymore to say about general outlines...

 

Let's go with the show! :yahoo:

 

Raphael

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Great work Russ! I am tempted by this kit, especially at the price.

 

It is like going to school watching your builds. I think your elves need to come to my shoppe.....

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Bahahahaha! Well Matt, I'm just crawling with elves (and I'd love to shuffle some up north for ya, they'd make great 'Elvis-snacks!), but it's a trial keeping them in the lifestyle they've become accustomed to. Darn yakkity spoiled rotten things require a ton of pudding cups and pop-tarts to keep em wound up enough to pound on models at all hours. Grrrrf, they're creepy little things too, and quite rowdy. :) They're starting to stink too,....I'd better hose em off. Hmmmmm. :wicked:

But I digress; Well Rick and Raphael, after throwing the chicken-bones up in the air and doing my spastic voodoo dance/chant for enlightenment.....,the bones said to squeak in at 172.5 degrees. This matches up with what Dragon did with their wing, so everybody can cast stones in their direction. heh heh. Just a manatee-hair less than what Raphael says at 170 degrees, and a yak-whisker more than what it came with. Whoohoo! Here's a shot of the wheel-wells chopped out and a new spar afixed into position. Can't believe what just 2-1/2 degrees did to the dihedral. I like it.

 

 

 

post-4413-1262630448.jpg

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