DMunne Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 It's getting harder and harder to find Model Master Enamel paints around here, and easier and easier to find Acrylics. It seems most of the hobby shops are switching to MM Acrylics and Tamiya and even Gunze. I've never really liked acrylics, they keep clogging my airbrush, but I can see some very real benefits to switching. A friend recently turned me on to acrylic retarders, so I got some today and will give it a try. I also want to work more with oil based washes. I think the effects of oil washes are far superior to any other medium. So does anybody here use acrylics that can pass on some knowledge? Perhaps recommend some required reading. What about the oil washes? What is the mildest thinner to use with the oil to avoid any chance of reaction with acrylic paints? I bought some turpenoid and turpentine. Sincerely, Crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveJ Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I can't say I know of any good reading on the topic, but I use acrylics almost exclusively and have since I took the hobby back up again. While I used to have lots of problems with clogging I almost never do anymore, mostly because I learned more about what thinners to use and in what ratios. I also got much better at actually cleaning my airbrushes! I can't even remember the last time I had a clogging problem. I've been meaning to try a retarder but haven't yet. I expect it would help a lot, particularly with Tamiya paints as they really tend to dry in the air and can leave a sort of chalky finish. They all have their quirks, but here's a tiny bit of what I've learned: Tamiya paints: I only use Tamiya thinner, usually about 60/40 (paint/thinner) MM Acryl: Does not need to be thinned! Good to go right from the bottle. (Older bottles may thicken a bit, if so use water) Xtracrylix: Great stuff, thins with tap water. Gloss finish that is almost ready for decals w/o a clear coat. Lifecolor: I'm starting to use these more and more. Lots of colors, FS code matches, smooth finish. I use Tamiya thinner with these as well. I use Xtracrylix acrylic varnishes for all flat or semi-gloss final coats. Super forgiving!! Over-sprayed areas that look milky still dry completely clear. Best tip of all! Use Alclad II Airbrush Cleaner!! It cuts through acrylics like a hot knife through butter! Not cheap but it takes very little of the stuff to clean the cup and shoot the rest through the brush. I only have to break down my brush for cleaning every few months since I tried it. A Godsend! I don't use oil washes so can't really offer you anything there. If you're using Future as a gloss coat I'd say that nothing need be done differently. I'm sure others here can offer you more on that. It took me quite a lot of trial & error to find what works for me, but I'm extremely happy with the results I get now. Hope that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big matt Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Dave is right about that Alclad airbrush cleaner. It is magic. I have found the Valejo Model Air colors paint really well from the bottle. I also found that the Tamiya thinner with a drop of dishwashing detergent in the bottle works well as a retarder, for me anyway. It is also a cheap way to go. Unfortunately I really miss the vicious contact high I got from using enamels.... Good luck. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikester Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 I've still got a good sized stash of Aeromaster acrylics, which I believe was made by Vallejo, it's great stuff. Like everyone's noted it's just a matter of finding out what makes the paint happy as far as thinner and ratio. Personally I've never had real good luck with MM acrylics but I've never really taken the time to try to get them to work either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMunne Posted August 10, 2009 Author Share Posted August 10, 2009 Thanks for the replies. I guess it's just a matter of practice. With the cost of 32nd scale kits these days, I wish there was a way to be sure. I've got a M-551 Sheriden I can practice on, so that may be the way to go. I picked up some MM Acrylic colors along with their own brand of Airbrush thinner to try. I also got a bottle of Liquitex Flow-aid as featured in one of Floyd Werner's DVD's. I'll give it a try and post some pics. I've gone thru my modeling books, but Verlindens book's are the only ones that mention oil washes. Crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveJ Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 Thanks for the replies. I guess it's just a matter of practice. With the cost of 32nd scale kits these days, I wish there was a way to be sure. I've got a M-551 Sheriden I can practice on, so that may be the way to go. I picked up some MM Acrylic colors along with their own brand of Airbrush thinner to try. I also got a bottle of Liquitex Flow-aid as featured in one of Floyd Werner's DVD's. I'll give it a try and post some pics. I've gone thru my modeling books, but Verlindens book's are the only ones that mention oil washes. Crash Hey Crash, You'll really want to try the MM Acryl straight before you bother thinning it. I was thinning it when I first got it, then read on the Testors site that they didn't need it. Worked much better once I stopped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMunne Posted August 10, 2009 Author Share Posted August 10, 2009 Dave is right about that Alclad airbrush cleaner. It is magic. Unfortunately I really miss the vicious contact high I got from using enamels.... Matt and Dave, Thanks for the tip. I'll look for some Alclad cleaner ASAP. I have some Alclad and I'll keep those. That should provide contact high. Crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMunne Posted August 10, 2009 Author Share Posted August 10, 2009 Hey Crash, You'll really want to try the MM Acryl straight before you bother thinning it. I was thinning it when I first got it, then read on the Testors site that they didn't need it. Worked much better once I stopped! Will Do. Crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtFlyer Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 It's getting harder and harder to find Model Master Enamel paints around here, and easier and easier to find Acrylics. It seems most of the hobby shops are switching to MM Acrylics and Tamiya and even Gunze. I've never really liked acrylics, they keep clogging my airbrush, but I can see some very real benefits to switching. A friend recently turned me on to acrylic retarders, so I got some today and will give it a try. I also want to work more with oil based washes. I think the effects of oil washes are far superior to any other medium. So does anybody here use acrylics that can pass on some knowledge? Perhaps recommend some required reading. What about the oil washes? What is the mildest thinner to use with the oil to avoid any chance of reaction with acrylic paints? I bought some turpenoid and turpentine. Sincerely, Crash Hi Crash: I stated using Model Masters Acrylics about six months ago and I found that some colors do need thinning. Some can be sprayed right out of the bottle but some need a little thinner. I am cheap. I just put a couple of drops of 91% alcohol from the drug store in my Paashe color cup stir with a tooth pick and it seems to work. You have to clear the paint that is in the line but I just open the tip wide open and one shot gets you to the thinned paint. One thing that I have found is that working with acrylics you need to give Acrylic's more of drying time than Enamels or you risk having the undercoat sticking to masking tape, even the low tack Tamiya tape. I also found it difficult to clean up with water or alcohol and I find that I have to use a little lacquer thinner to get it all out of my air brush needle valve and tip using a pipe cleaner. I usually apply a coat of Future Floor Wax as a clear coat for decals and I find that is also good for applying artist oil colors for panel lines and weathering. I then spray a Model Master Enamel dull coat to knock down the sheen. I hope that helps you. MtFlyer...aka Keith Anderson Twain Harte, California Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leitch Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I use MM Acrylics all the time, just add a drop or two of future to the paint. Its a great leveler and your paint coat will be as tough as nails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theseeker Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Crash, I cannot add much as all the comments above are tried and true. I will add one comment, the Gunze acrylic paints are outstanding if and when you can find them. I thin them with 91% alcohol and they are close to perfect. Tamiya can dry a little to fast for my liking, but I still use them frequently. I also use enamels, oil washes and I have recently started using MIG pigments mixed with acrylics. Many armor builders swear by these and the effects are great, although a little practice is required. Rocky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMunne Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share Posted August 17, 2009 I use MM Acrylics all the time, just add a drop or two of future to the paint. Its a great leveler and your paint coat will be as tough as nails. Leitch, Really. Good tip. I will definately give this a try! Rocky, I will look for some Gunze paints. One LHS is starting to get these in. BTW love Tamiya flat black. Absolutely the best black on the market. Sincerely, Crash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theseeker Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Leitch, Really. Good tip. I will definately give this a try! Rocky, I will look for some Gunze paints. One LHS is starting to get these in. BTW love Tamiya flat black. Absolutely the best black on the market. Sincerely, Crash Crash, If you like Tamiya FB you will love Gunze FB not to mention their Satin Black and more. Rocky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steef237 Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 Hey Crash, Beware of using filters or washes with enamels on acrylics.... Be sure that you've coated your paintwork with a good clear coat. Especially Tamiya acrylics will have to be protected. Tamiya's gloss clear coat in 2 or 3 thin layers with a good dry between the layers will protect sufficiently..... Once you,ve gotten used to Tamiya's acrylics you'll see that for a matt coat nothing else can come to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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