Started an experiment tonite....

[Sabre F-86]

Yeh, I'm pretty impressed with it too so far. In this particular case, being its all pretty much flat sheet with only simple curves, its working out very well. For aircraft with more complex forms, the paper models make a good basis for starting as they have (usually) a fairly decent framework for the paper surfaces to hang onto.

 

One thing I've noticed in the models I've looked at is a lack of a center axis marking on 90% of the models interior framework. Very seldom do the designers add that, so sometimes alignment of the frames is difficult as your conic section will then be dependant on the outer skins shape for the alignment of the nose and tail frame. Sometimes they give you a vertical centerline, in which case you could cut the frame in two and do a half fuselage like we used to do with balsa. Most of the time though, you are only getting a tick mark to designate the top of a frame.

 

Another thing, especially in the case of the Wal is how accurate the model can be if there are no existing drawings of the full sized prototype. This Wal will be a nice model but I really think that the designer just made a generic Wal, using dimensions from different sources melded into one model. I'm pretty sure that the hull is a tad short, the wings are way long for their chord and the engine is just a box shaped like a side view photo. Oh well, I'm having a "wal" of a time building this, and I don't really care about dimensions on this one. If it was something like an FW-190 or a P-51, anyone would be all over me because the visual image would be obviously off. In this case? When was the last time anyone actually saw a Wal other than the replica in the museum? It looks like a Wal and good luck trying to prove its dimensional accuracy as a model. For the purpose of learning the art of paper to plastic conversion, I don't think I could have picked a simpler model. Monoplane, straight wing and tail planform, simple slab fuselage, no landing gear to futz with.

 

Being as I work at a computer all day with internet access, I spend a lot of time looking at various modeling forums n websites. The developement of the paper model lends well to conversion to plastic as we are seeing here. Once I started reading the paper model forums in depth, I find now I'm starting to look at the software behind the models. I haven't actually downloaded some of it to try out but it seems to me that it may well be something we should look into if we want to build models that are not mainstreet.

 

Sabre, 118 days n a wake up.

[LSP_Kevin]

Once I started reading the paper model forums in depth, I find now I'm starting to look at the software behind the models.

 

Any good sites you could recommend Sabre? I'm interested in giving this sort of thing a go myself, either transferring to plastic as you're doing, or building them as straight paper models. I'd love to have a go at a Gnat in 1/32 for example (though there are some difficult shapes there), but most of the paper model sites I've found either specialise in sci-fi/space (no bad thing), or feature aircraft I can easily get in kit form.

 

Kev

[Sabre F-86]

I can post some links when I get back to work. You'd be surprised whats on my computer at work that never makes it home. Sometimes I spent 7 out of 8 hrs at work checking out different sites if its a slow nite. Anyway, the two softare packages I've read a bit about are Pepecura and meta something or other. I'll have the links for you on Sunday.

 

Sabre, 118 days n a wake up.

[Sabre F-86]

Back at work, so here are some URLs for Paper model forums.

 

http://www.cardmodels.net/forum/

 

English language site, some pretty good info. You have to register with them to access some of the photos and what not.

 

 

http://www.kartonbau.de/wbb2/hmportal.php

 

German language site, also very good stuff here but if you don't read the language it may be hard to follow. Lots of photos of inprogress stuff, so you can get the gist of whats going in easy enough.

 

 

http://www.zealot.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7

 

Similar to the first one, english language.

 

 

http://www.halinski.com.pl/indexgb.php

 

A good source for kits. One of the manufacturers. Large scale stuff is in 1:33 scale, enlarge by 1.04 to get to 1:32.

 

 

http://ecardmodels.com/shop/product_info.p...products_id=488

 

Another source, with varying scale models.

 

 

http://www.modele-kartonowe.com/fokker/index.html

 

This is a free paper model in 1:33 scale for a Fokker Eindecker, with various markings. You down load it and print it on heavy stock. Each of the forums above has several builds of this particular model and its a great one to start on if you want to try the conversion to plastic. It won't cost you anything beyond the cost of printing up the sheets. I've scaled this on up and will be having a go at it soon.

 

 

http://www.papermodels.co.il/

 

A supplier of 1/32 and 1/72 models, with a slant toward Israeli aircratf. Several helicopters, NA Broncos, and Israeli aircraft including their twin engine transport the Arava. There are also 1/32 models of the P-39d, P-40N, various P-51s and Me-109s. A Dornier 17 too.

 

 

http://i.webring.com/hub?ring=papermodelwebrin

 

Last but not least the paper model webring. I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of all the links here.

 

 

Have a look see, there are some interesting techniques used to do paper. Way back when before PE was readily available, I used to make up some folded paper things for my models as paper was scale in thickness and you could do a fair bit with it inside a cockpit or fuselage where the paper was protected. And paper is so much easier to work with, that I sometimes still do paper bits.

 

Sabre

115 days n a wake up.

[LSP_Kevin]

Thanks Sabre - great post! I'll check out those links when I get a chance.

 

Kev

[ssculptor]

Any good sites you could recommend Sabre? I'm interested in giving this sort of thing a go myself, either transferring to plastic as you're doing, or building them as straight paper models. I'd love to have a go at a Gnat in 1/32 for example (though there are some difficult shapes there), but most of the paper model sites I've found either specialise in sci-fi/space (no bad thing), or feature aircraft I can easily get in kit form.

 

Kev

Kev,

That is interesting and puzzling. Most of the paper card dealers sites I have visited specialize in scale models of airplanes, mostly military, vehicles, military vehicles, trains, ships and buildings.

Sci-Fi and Japanese Anime is a relatively new topic and is coming from Asia.

For many years all the paper card models were produced behind the old iron curtain, in Poland.

Over the years I have accumulated an extensive stash of these models and the quality runs from rough paper (the 1970's and 1980's production) to the more sophisticated models produced by new companies where the paper is better and interior details are printed for inclusion.

 

In general, modelers who started with stick and tissue wood model airplanes are more experienced in building interior forms and reinforcements than plastic modelers, who never had to concern themselves with the innards.

Thus it is harder for a modeler who has built only plastic kits all his life to understand and get a handle on building interior reinforcements and formers and scratch building in general.

Guys who have been building wood flying model kits often branch out into building from plans and stock balsa sheets and then into scratch building altogether. For thse modelers it is a natural transformation.

Thus it is harder for a plastic modeler to make the transformation into a scratch builder - he has to learn totally new techniques

which are foreign to plastic modeling. Some do it but, understandibly. more would rather not get involved in learning new techniques and developing new skills. After all, this is a hobby for fun and relaxation. When the hobby becomes just another producer of stress why bother? What are we supposed to do, take up a second hobby to relax from the modeling hobby?

 

Stephen

[Sabre F-86]

Kev, have a look at the top two sources I referred to. Halinski has a large selection of 1:33 aircraft of all different sorts which are most likely never to make it to plastic (not barring Vacs of course). The other one is also pretty good for non mainstream models. I wouldn't go below the 1:50 limit as the models are very much plainer in construction and the enlarging is tedious to say the least as its 154% or so and needs to be done in two goes on large paper and even then you still have cut off sections. The original artwork for the Wal was 5 pages and I ended up with 17 11x17 pages to get all the parts scaled up.

 

Steve is correct, the skills used for the paper/plastic conversion are a natural for anyone who has done stick n paper flying models. I can see where a plastic builder who has never even attempted an interior or a mod of some sort to a plastic kit would be daunted by the task of taking a paper model and doing it in plastic.

 

For myself, I spent my early years carving solid wood models, moved on to Guillows kits and others, then started using the plans from other peoples kits to build my own models as most kit plans have the parts laid out. I have also had a fair bit of experience in building full size aircraft, and boats, so understanding the art of layout of parts, framing them up and fairing the curves is not foreign to me. Moving from wood to plastic is a snap for me, I just have to learn what is possible with sheet plastic in terms of curves n such. The basic structure is no different from a balsa model to a plastic conversion. Its still only frames on a keel with stringers. Where the hard part comes is in the formation of complex curves like nose cones or spinners or wing fairings. You need to learn a new way of doing them and even they are not that hard. Just plank them in smaller pieces. More sanding and filling but still its just plank n frame like doing a sailing ship model. For really exotic curves, its possible to do the solid block method of carving out things, only this time you use polyurethane foam, like what the florists uses. Of course if you are going to do alot of it, go to a fiberglas supplier and buy it in sheets. Cut to fit between two frame and carve and sand to your hearts' content. Then cover with epoxy paste. Alternately of course is the solid pattern and then vacuform the shape. There was a build of a 1/72nd scale Coronado flying boat in the 1970 modeling annual which was just that type of build. I suspect that if and when I try the BV-138, it will be a combination of flat sheet, rows of strips around mild complex curves and block foam for the really curvy bits.

 

To my mind, the best way to make the move to doing paper plastic conversions is to start with something simple and slab sided. Ergo the Wal or the Hadrian glider. Easy forms, flat plates and a simple wing foil. Plastic is cheap, I got a quote for about $9 a 4x8 foot sheet of 040 from my local supplier. Get a set of plans and have at it. Once you mess that up a couple of times, if you are patient you will learn the techniques you need and can move on to something a bit more curvy. And the beauty of it is you will have a one of a kind large scale model of something no one has ever dreamed of seeing in plastic. Net cost? Negligable.

 

As for there not being a model of the aircraft you want, I find from reading the forums that a lot of people facing that problem will spend some time to get the software thats out there and end up developing their own models. So perhaps this is an avenue for us. No model of the aircraft you want? Design it. It only costs time and paper.

 

Sorry for pontificating. I'm finding this paper/plastic thing to be very satisfying. I'm impatient for the day I can put the Wal in my display and say 'I built that from scratch'....

 

 

Sabre

114 days n a wake up.

[Derek B]

Sabre,

 

In general terms, I share your thoughts and philosophy with regards to scratch building. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, and right now, your Wal looks good enough to eat

 

If you don't give it a go, you'll never know if you can do it or not - You either learn from your mistakes and master it - enriching your experience and skills immensely in the process - or regret never having had the courage to try it (simply a choice, no more than that) .

 

Derek

[Sabre F-86]

+1 Derek.

 

 

Isn't it the SAS whose motto is 'Who Dares, Wins"

 

 

Sabre

114 days n a wake up.

[Sabre F-86]

Been diggin round a bit, heres the URL for Metasequoia, one of the software packages people use for designing. I only just found it so I know nothing about it.

 

http://www.metaseq.net/english/index.html

 

just found the other one as well, Pepakura. same caveat as above.

 

http://www.tamasoft.co.jp/pepakura-en/

 

 

HeHe, found a third one, this ones free to download. Seems this one works for the initial designing and then you can transfer drawings to Pepakura to unfold them.

 

http://sketchup.google.com/download/

 

Sabre

114 days n a wake up.

[LSP_Kevin]

Thanks for your thoughtful replies Sabre, they're a great help. I agree with everything you say, and harbour ambitions to scratch build something myself one day. But I'm learning to crawl first, hence all the hacking I do on most of my builds (cf the Zero rebuild). Once I'm a bit more comfortable (and accomplished) with scratch building details and such, I'd like to graduate to building a few vac kits, and maybe the odd major conversion, before trying something from scratch myself.

 

Of course, I take great inspiration from builds such as yours!

 

Kev

[Derek B]

Thanks for your thoughtful replies Sabre, they're a great help. I agree with everything you say, and harbour ambitions to scratch build something myself one day. But I'm learning to crawl first, hence all the hacking I do on most of my builds (cf the Zero rebuild). Once I'm a bit more comfortable (and accomplished) with scratch building details and such, I'd like to graduate to building a few vac kits, and maybe the odd major conversion, before trying something from scratch myself.

 

Of course, I take great inspiration from builds such as yours!

 

Kev

 

I agree with you Kev, it is great builds like this that really get the inspiration going. I percieve the the likes of Sabre, Russ, Loic and many other LSP members show a trend to developing scratch building techniques and skills to even higher limits (plus the possibility that we are now 'gaining' more and more experienced modellers to LSP who are now showing us what they have always done - but in 'our' scale?).

 

Kev, I know that you shall one day 'bite the bullet' and go for a scratch build project - when you are well and ready, of course (we all had to start somewhere, and any modeller that can carry out exstensive conversion and detail work on an injection moulded kit already possess more than enough skills to tackle either vacform kits or scratch build).

 

Rock on with the Wal!

 

Derek

[mschoo]

Been diggin round a bit, heres the URL for Metasequoia, one of the software packages people use for designing. I only just found it so I know nothing about it.

 

http://www.metaseq.net/english/index.html

 

just found the other one as well, Pepakura. same caveat as above.

 

http://www.tamasoft.co.jp/pepakura-en/

HeHe, found a third one, this ones free to download. Seems this one works for the initial designing and then you can transfer drawings to Pepakura to unfold them.

 

http://sketchup.google.com/download/

 

Sabre

114 days n a wake up.

 

Sketchup is a phenomenal tool, I've been picking it up bit by bit myself lately, it's quite easy to learn! (It's used by some illustrators and concept artists to mock up a scene quickly or to do a "block model" of a vehicle to work out design issues and make sure your perspectives are ok for a final pic.) There are a TON of great learning tools for it (also free) out there, and (I must admit) it's a LOAD of fun to play with

hope that helps,

mike

[LSP_Kevin]

Sketchup is a phenomenal tool, I've been picking it up bit by bit myself lately, it's quite easy to learn! (It's used by some illustrators and concept artists to mock up a scene quickly or to do a "block model" of a vehicle to work out design issues and make sure your perspectives are ok for a final pic.) There are a TON of great learning tools for it (also free) out there, and (I must admit) it's a LOAD of fun to play with

hope that helps,

mike

 

Indeed. We make it available to our students at school, but I never thought of playing with it myself! (ahem...)

 

Kev

[Sabre F-86]

I had a look at sketch up and I'm probably going to install it this weekend and have a go at it.

 

Thanks for putting me up there with the likes of Russ, Loic and others. I still genuflect in their general direction, they are a magnitude of order ahead of my bodging attempts. But I mean that in a positive way, as this isn't a competition. We aren't trying to out do each other, all we are doing is pushing the envelope and teaching others our ways to produce a better model. In the end we all win. And that, as they say, is a good thing.

 

I'm also inclined to think that as the world economy goes for a burton, this way we will still be able to continue our favorite vice, at a much reduced cost. As long as we can afford the sheet plastic n glue, we can model to our hearts content. I look at paper models that way. They were developed in part because the East European modelers didn't have access to the same level of plastic as we did, so they went to paper, and modeled anyway. My hats off to them.

 

Sabre.

113 days n a wake up.