big matt Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I guess we'll have at least a couple of "Franks"! This will be my first ever Japanese aircraft so any help from the experts out there would be greatly appreciated. From what I can tell so far, it looks like this kit is really nice and I am looking forward to getting started and seeing some great work from everyone on this group build. Good Luck! Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loic Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Hey Matt, this is a great kit and you will love it. Good to have you too! Cheers, loic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdthoresen Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Matt- It is a great kit of an often underated fighter- A couple of things- 1) Most Hayates had Japanese interior green cockpits, some bare metal (Towards end of war) 2) The instrument panel coaming has a bunch of oversize rivets on it- Seems to be overdone- 3) The seat needs a bit of thinning..... 4) Landing flaps are in the deployed position, and need to be retracted- They are molded dropped on the model. These are just small issues- Nice kit regardless- Good Luck! THOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big matt Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 Thanks Thor. I did notice the seat is a little off. The tail marking decals don't seem to have the right colors for the 22 Sentai. According to what I have read so far. J aircraft seems to be a pretty comprehensive site, hopefully I can find some other online references as my library at home consists of about 200 Luftwaffe books. The molding on the kit looks better than most Hasegawa 1/32 kits I have built. Pretty impressive. I have perused Jay Laverty's Frank awesome build and read his comments regarding the flaps as well. Nice learning curve on Japanese aircraft. I hope to learn a lot from everyone. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 1) Most Hayates had Japanese interior green cockpits, some bare metal (Towards end of war) Whoa there big fella! Preproduction Hayate had aotake cockpits. Midprodution Hayate had a dark green cockpit similar to the IJA exterior green and the later Hayate had natural metal cockpits. Interior green is way out..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big matt Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 Help! What about the Nakajima interior green color? Kind of a yellowish RLM02 I think. I am leaning toward a NMF cockpit but am not sure. I usually only count odd numbered rivets anyway. Were wheel wells the same color as the cockpits or aotake??? I am learning that there were a few shades of that finish as well. I like to get as close as I can but Japanese a/c are very new to me. Thanks Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Help!What about the Nakajima interior green color? Kind of a yellowish RLM02 I think. I am leaning toward a NMF cockpit but am not sure. I usually only count odd numbered rivets anyway. Were wheel wells the same color as the cockpits or aotake??? I am learning that there were a few shades of that finish as well. I like to get as close as I can but Japanese a/c are very new to me. Thanks Matt Matt, as a rule of thumb, aotake was only used on IJN aircraft, not IJA ones. The Ki-84 is an army aircraft, so I'd err with something other than aotake. I'm sure there were exceptions, but let's leave that for the experts (the ones who count all the rivets). Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Wheel wells were the same color as the underside of the aircraft. Yes, aotake varied from a green hue to a very light blue hue with a tint of green. Remember aotake is a translucent laquer, not a metallic paint. (That was just FYI) Model paints mimic the shade by introducing metallic particles in the paint. It's an acceptable practice. I've used it both by bottle and by mixing and spraying a clear blue-green over an aluminum base coat and you can't tell the difference between the two. Kevin: Aotake was a shade used by both services during the war equally. You may be confusing aotake with something else. Aotake is the translucent blue-green protective laquer applied to metal to protect it from corrosion. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Kevin: Aotake was a shade used by both services during the war equally. You may be confusing aotake with something else. Aotake is the translucent blue-green protective laquer applied to metal to protect it from corrosion. Yes, I know what aotake is, but my understanding is that it wasn't employed on IJAAF for the most part. The "protect it from corrosion" intent is certainly more necessary for carrier-borne aircraft than land-based ones! To be honest I've yet to come across definitive evidence either way, and even with IJN aircraft, its use seemed to vary widely. I believe Nakajima used it on the wheel wells of their Zeros, whereas Mitsubishi-built machines used the underside colour. Still, most people know more about most things than I do, so I'm always prepared to be wrong. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdthoresen Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Whoa there big fella! Preproduction Hayate had aotake cockpits. Midprodution Hayate had a dark green cockpit similar to the IJA exterior green and the later Hayate had natural metal cockpits. Interior green is way out..... I did not mean US interior Green- And yes some were reported to have Aotake cockpits early in the run, mostly preproduction aircraft- However, unless modeling one of these aircraft- The other options would be a better choice- I had said Japanese Interior green- Guess I should have said Nakajima! Good Luck- Japanese colors are the only thing people get more riled up about than Luftwaffe paintjobs!!!! Later- THOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamme Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Welcome to this Group Build. Cheers, Jamme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruzlkampf Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 So, uh...I didn't get much outta the info above, except that Nakajima interior green is a dark green? My directions are blank where it describes this color too, Matt. Hmmm. Got any clues yet? I wuz going to wait until you post pics of your cockpit,....and just copy what YOU do!!! Meh heh heh. Hey bud, I'm not going to be using any of the squadron/sentai(whatever) markings that came with my kit. If you're interested in doing something different than what came with yours,...let me know and I'll mail em to ya. Lemme know, and I'll show ya what I got. OK? Hurry up and paint something, so I can shamelessly copy!!! Later, Russ P.S. Congrats on winning a Carrier GB prize! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big matt Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Not wanting to get worked up in a frenzy about the colors was my plan. That plan has fallen apart already and I have not even taken the sprues out of the bag!!! Thor is right, this is confusing and people are very passionate about this subject. I found a page on j-aircraft that has caused me more problems than it solved. http://www.j-aircraft.com/research/gregspr.../wem-review.htm apparently the best color ever for Nakajima interiors was an Aeromaster enamel called Nakajima Interior something or other. I guess they don't even make it anymore. Great. It looks like chip #4 in the link is a little more yellow than RLM 02. I read that FS 34255 was very close but who makes that in an acrylic? Ya, right. The Tamiya IJN grey green looks just like their green they made special for the first 1/32 Zero kit. Bare metal is looking like an option right now. Cool Russ! What markings came in your version? Mine is the 22nd Sentai that was based in China, Japan and Phillipines, maybe Korea too. The Chrysanthemum and river symbols are a little off from the IJA markings reference I have so I was looking for something different. Painting soon, I hope. Still working on the paint on my Dora. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juggernut Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I did not mean US interior Green- And yes some were reported to have Aotake cockpits early in the run, mostly preproduction aircraft- However, unless modeling one of these aircraft- The other options would be a better choice- I had said Japanese Interior green- Guess I should have said Nakajima! Good Luck- Japanese colors are the only thing people get more riled up about than Luftwaffe paintjobs!!!! Later- THOR I cannot locate the thread now but on J-aircraft.com there was a thread where the researchers gave their best approximation of the colors for the interiors of various stages during the 84 production run. What I typed above is the condensed version of those opinions. In Mikesh's book on Japanese interiors, he states that a definitive color deduction on the 84 cannot be made from the existing relics due to age and fading. Add to that the fact that the only extant example has had its cockpit repainted in yellow zinc chromate. Contemporary photographs of that cockpit support the dark green interior (in my opinion and with my particular eyesight). He suggests that since the Ki-43 and Ki-44 were both made by Nakajima and based on the aotake painted Ki-43, the possibility exists that the 44 and 84 followed the same line. The dark green interior might be similar to the Myrt cockpit color that Ryan Toews examined in an article on j-aircraft.com. An excerpt from the article: The Service Manual mentions that:-The magnesium alloy center left and right instrument panels in the pilot's cockpit are "covered with dark green crackle enamel". -The magnesium alloy instrument panel and the instrument board in the observer's cockpit are "covered with dark green crackle enamel". Robert Mikesh's Japanese Aircraft Interiors 1940-1945 (2000) has addition information on the cockpit interior color. He states FS 34082 is a reasonably close match to the green found in the cockpit interior of the Myrt in the NASM collection. A photo of the front cockpit well of an early C6N1 in both Mikesh and FAOW 11 shows no contrast between the instrument panel and the sidewalls of the cockpit so it may be possible to assume that the dark green crackle enamel was of the same shade. I read your original post accurately and have not found any evidence from anyone (other than the Hasegawa instructions) or suggestion that any interior green, Japanese or otherwise is accurate for the Ki-84. Some time down the road, other research may surface that refutes the information above but until then, it's the best information I have. Nakajima built zeros and painted the cockpits interior green along with some other IJN aircraft. In my opinion, the army aircraft seem to have been made to a different set of specifications regarding cockpit painting. Matt, the best two options in my opinion are aotake or bare metal. However, it's your build...paint it whatever you feel is best. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0t0rdr1ver Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 So, uh...I didn't get much outta the info above, except that Nakajima interior green is a dark green? My directions are blank where it describes this color too, Matt. Hmmm. Got any clues yet? I wuz going to wait until you post pics of your cockpit,....and just copy what YOU do!!! Meh heh heh. Hurry up and paint something, so I can shamelessly copy!!! Later, Russ Too funny! It's bittersweet that my kits not here yet, I'm anxious to start, but I'm gonna do the same thing here and shamelessly copy!! I can see already there is going to be a huge learning curve here, but it sounds like we have some good folks in the know here who can help point us in the right direction. Can't wait to see your progress Matt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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