ME-110G-2

[ruzlkampf]

Thanks for the compliments Dan & Dave! This build is bigger than just 'Russ hacking up a perfectly good Me-110 model'. It really is a group build unto itself as I'm getting info/help from all over the world from very helpful modellers behind the scenes! I would like to thank all contributors again for their time and generosity! Also if anybody has any info to share/experiences building this kit/obscure cool info,ect, please feel free to join in. Information on this aircraft is many times conflicting, and I'd like this thread to be repository(dump?) of available knowledge(good or bad) for all to sift thru and apply to their own builds, in their own way.

Darn, now I can't get that Beatles song, 'I Get By With A Little Help From My Friends' out of my head. I think I'm going to cry now....sniffle. Later, Russ

[CharlesMetz]

--snip--

I checked the kit spinner baseplate against a Hasegawa Me-109G spinner baseplate and they were the SAME size! They're even correct scale size. Hmmm, that means if somebody wanted to swap out spinners/props, or add resin replacements with an even more scale profile to the stock kit nacelles....it's a drop-on replacement! Sweet!

--snip--

Russ,

 

The Revell '110 G and Hasegawa '109 G/K spinner baseplates are indeed almost the same size ... but not quite: the former is approximately 3/64" (1.2 mm) smaller in diameter than the latter. Unfortunately, this difference is too great to allow a "drop-on replacement," and the discrepancy can't be eliminated merely by sanding the aft part of the Hasegawa spinner without altering its profile appreciably, in my opinion.

 

I hope you'll accept this observation in the constructive spirit with which I offer it.

 

Charles Metz

[ruzlkampf]

Ahhh, cooking up some steak 'n eggs for dinner and I decided to pop in and see if any new info has shown up. Glad to see you're still following this build Charles! Of course I'm taking your views constructively. PLEASE feel free to doubt anything I'm doing, I value your opinion Sir. I am also free to disagree. On the internet, that sounds like a snide remark, huh?! Impossible to tell the inflection and tone of my voice, or see a passive look on my face, or anything. Kinda makes communicating tough without any emotions involved. I am not a combative person Charles, far from it, so I hope you don't read anything into whatever I say.

My spinner(s) are not 1.2mm off, and I looked at a tape measure to be sure. That's a HUGE difference in size, and I agree wouldn't fly. Mine are off by the thickness of 2 pieces of 20#bond paper, don't have my micrometer handy, but thats a few .001's of an inch. I really had to squint to see a difference. I can't explain the size difference between yours/mine spinners, but that's what I have in front of me. BUT...I was wrong to say they're a drop-on fit. Why? Because I haven't assembled the nacelle for the "G" kit to see if it really will. This kit doesn't just fall together, and that nacelle might be COMPLETELY different in size smaller/larger than that spinner. This is all a moot point anyway, as the cowl is wrong to begin with, and the Hasegawa spinner is shaped wrong also!. Just want to see if anybody could do this, as I've read that others already have resin replacement spinners and for whatever reason don't want to change their cowls. Information is what this thread is all about, so I'm going to post pics of my results. Be back in a few. Russ

[ruzlkampf]

Okay, experiment went WAY better than I expected. I was using macro extreme magnification so everybody can see that the Hasegawa(or I guess replacement resin spinners?) spinners are a BETTER fit than the kit spinners on my "G" kit engine cowling. WHOA. Of course, this won't work on the "C" kit cowling as the spinners are much smaller. I didn't shave anything down, or make any mods to get these to fit. Just slapped glue on them. Here's the pics;

 

[ruzlkampf]

Lemme see if I can get all 3 pics together here.

 

 

 

[ruzlkampf]

Shoulda tapped the spinner over just a literal hair in the top view as the glue was still wet, but it is an exact fit width-wise as well as vertically. Here's an overall view if somebody is wondering what it would look like. Wish I had my replacement resin spinners so I could see how it would affect the contours. Not too terrible the way it is, sure is an improvement on the kit spinner.(IMHO)

 

 

So, it appears to be possible to do this. I want to emphasize that this is not a "I'm right, everybody else is wrong", as I will be the first to say I don't know a damn thing about ME-110's, but I'm a fast study. I'm only going by the information I have in front of ME. As an example, I now have 7 sets of plans. 3 of them say that the wingtips are squared off more than the kits, 4 say the kits are correct. Do I say they're correct cause most say so? Phhht!, they might ALL be wrong for all I know. So I'm looking at pics of the real thing(hard to find a top view BTW....Charles, ya got any info to bail me out?...I'm stuck) So if Charles, or anybody else has ANY information/dis-information, good or bad, let's kick it around... it ALL helps! I'll be the first to say,"whups I'm wrong", and everybody is free to doubt my changes. I want them to pass the LSP Test!!!

Gotta get back to my (probably wrong) engine cowl mods! Later, Russ

 

P.S. If anybody wants more pics of this spinner/cowl thing from other angles/magnifications for your build, let me know,OK?

[ruzlkampf]

Day 4....The dirge continues. Kinda bored,so I thought I'd post some more pics. Got the wheel wells enclosed, and started/squared up my permanent "firewalls" and engine attachment points,but no pics of that yet. Chopped more off the nacelle tops toward their fronts to ease a transition.(they were still too vertical, and the tops are well rounded) It took every ounce of restraint to keep from doing more detail in these UC bays...but I don't have the time. I still might, if I run into an impasse and need something to doodle on.

Have engineered a new LG attachment method, and modified the retraction system to be more scale looking.(thanks for the detailed pics Matt!) Pics of that as they develop, and I install. Nothing dramatically new, just the latest;

 

 

 

Basic stuff, YAWN.

[ruzlkampf]

Shot of my dummy engine and spinner to show what I'll be working on tomorrow night. Whoohoo! This is a crude attempt to show ya'll what kind of profile I'm going for. Getting to the fun part now.

 

[LSP_Kevin]

Man Russ, you ain't half ambitious for what's supposed to be a quick build! Love your work though, and it's great fun to watch you mould this into shape - it's like sculpting with plastic.

 

Kev

[ruzlkampf]

Heey Kevin!, One of the reasons this is going so quick, is because the plastic is so soft it's like carving a bar of soap. I REALLY want to drill out the 'inverted hump' for tire clearance in those bays SOOO bad, and add the stiffeners to the sides. But nothing is a scale depth, and the UC doors/nacelles are off,....and well, this is going to be chopped up when I finish anyway so I can mold/cast these new nacelles in resin. This is just good practice for the G-4 nightfighter I'll build later. Saving all my PE and trinkets for that one! Glad ya popped in to say howdy! Russ

[Spads57]

Russ,

Excellent craftsmanship. Man,I'm excited just to see your next update.I've been kicking around a Me 110 project finished in Regia Aeronautica markings for a while now. Your project will be a great help in fixing the Ol'Revell kitRegards,

Gregory Jouette

[ruzlkampf]

Howdy Gregory!, Glad to see there's a lot of interest in the ME-110! An Italian paintjob would be waaay cool. Are you going to make it a "G", or an earlier version? Would love to see any pics you may have in any stage of completion. Feel free to post if you want, I'm sure everybody would like to see!(I know I do )

Just passed thru the 'reference' phase, and was truly amazed at the results. I say this because you mentioned "fixing" this kit, and I know most are probably wondering "what the heck that boy's doing chopping up the nose and moving the wing around", eh?! I have scaled 27 sets of plans, all that I could get my grubby mitts on in the short time I've had available ....and not one/zero/zip/nada/none...matched up. I find that incredible. Also, panel lines seem to be a matter of "artistic license". Again, all drawings are different. Why? I believe it's because there is a paucity of hard numbers for dimensional drawings to be concise. One or more of these drawings are probably correct in one way or another, but there is no way of knowing for sure with the info I have available.

What I do have, are measurements of a captured Me-110C that was sent to the US, and gone over by Vultee. Concise measurements of all the fuselage stations from nose/tail, with wingspar attachment points. These verified my mods already done.(major relief!) Frustratingly absent are any #'s of fuse depth/height off a datum/thrust line to verify any fuselage profile. All plans show the fuse as not being 'deep' enough, but vary wildly on how much or where. The kit might even be correct? No dimensios to verify. Also in doubt is the height of the wing chord at the fuse side...all plans show it being thicker than the kits, but again, no #'s so all are different. If you start altering one profile on the AC, it throws all the others off.

Here's an example. I have measurements off the Vultee drawings(wing on the kit was really close, but they show a more rounded wingtip in planform than photos?) and they show the wing as being root to tip as being straight. Here's what the kit, and most plans show. Can you see how just this little unknown info would throw off the height of the nacelles and fuselage depth, and affect every proportion from the canopy height to the wheel-well depth? Who is correct? I dunno.

 

 

Crude drawing, but I think everybody gets the picture. There is too much ambiguous information/plans, and lack of hard measurements, for me to sift thru all the gray areas and confusion and say...this is correct. I really hope somebody went to Britain with rulers and calipers to measure the Me-110G-4 there for the upcoming kit to be released. To say I can't wait to see what it looks like would be an understatement after all the "ciphering" I've been thru this last week. Soo...I guess ya pick yer plans, and build it until it looks like you want. AFAIK, nobody will be able to prove you're wrong....but it's almost impossible to prove yourself correct without more substantial data. I hope this AC starts getting the attention it deserves like all the "big sellers", and more research is done on it. Until then, if it looks like a duck,..quacks like a duck..., and yer having fun building it..... After stressing on finding all the correct info, I'm going back to just having fun and buildng it the way I want. Don't have much time left,....and it is just a model airplane after all. Sorry I couldn't provide everybody with more detailed info. Tried my best to find out one way or the other. I believe I have a really good idea what the proportions are supposed to be, but it's pure postulation without more info and I don't want to add any pre-conceived notions or mis-conceptions. Nuf said.

[ruzlkampf]

OK, after all the quibbling confusion I just put everybody thru , I had to show ya'll something that I KNOW is amiss. Bwhahah. If you're doing a 'small rudder' AC, you need to trim off the trim tab to conform to the rudder profile, and add re-scribe more surface area into the rudder itself. Also, in my previous pics I showed adding external trim tabs on the ailerons. This is correct for a 'G'(hmm, maybe a late 'F' also?), but is not needed for the earlier versions.

I always like showing at least one pic if I add to this thread. This is pretty pitiful, but useful info nonetheless. The nacelles are going great, and I wish I had more time to post pics, but real-life has intervened, and I won't be able to post until Friday evening(SoCal time). Blast! See ya'll then! Happy modelling, Russ

 

[ruzlkampf]

Dooooh, You beat me to it Dan! , You speak words of power and truth. Was looking at yet more pics of this plane before going to bed, hoping they'd talk to me and reveal yet more secrets....or SOMETHING. Wanted to edit my last post, as I'm wrong about the above rudder mods, sorta. I have seen pics of these enlarged trim tabs on DB-605 powered (late F...early G's) ME-110's. Maybe an interim solution to the increased torque before going with the larger rudders? I don't see them on any of the early versions, and sporatically on the late. Aaaaagh. I'm going to run out of here screaming now!!!!!

I used a razor saw for the vertical cuts, and a hooked/scooped dental pick looking engraving tool that sucks for that job but works great for curved cuts on the horizontal. The plastic on this kit cuts like a bar of soap literally, and it only takes a coupla swipes/cuts to do anything. Kinda cool for a change.

I'm still going to be doing a lot of cutting /mods on this kit to follow known dimensional differences, it's just too complicated to explain everything in any detail...except as I go along. So if anybody is interested in how to screw up big time on chopping up a perfectly good me-110 kit, stay tuned! Hah!

[Guest Rigor]

boy do i know what you mean, but russ i looks great from here

and iam still looking for that pix i have of this plane