DrDave Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 I also wonder about the bad batch theory. Alclad is formulated in a mixture of high volatility solvents like acetone and ethers. Whats the miraculous drying agent that ambient temp and a breeze cant fix? I suspect that the simple laws of physics apply and cold damp conditions lead to poor drying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 I also wonder about the bad batch theory. Alclad is formulated in a mixture of high volatility solvents like acetone and ethers. Whats the miraculous drying agent that ambient temp and a breeze cant fix? I suspect that the simple laws of physics apply and cold damp conditions lead to poor drying. The bad stuff seems to spray fine, and cover well. But an hour or a day or a week later, you touch it and it is still tacky. It never goes beyond that, at least not in any reasonable length of time. As for drying conditions, I don't live in the UK. I live in desert conditions with 90+ degrees farenheit and close to zero humidity. No difference..... The proper formula is basically dry in ten minutes or so, unless you spray it on grossly thick. I don't know why you find it so hard to believe an imperfect product can get out now and then. No company is perfect. What matters is what they do to correct errors, and Alclad deserves an A+ as far as that goes..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDave Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Touche! Mine have worked fine. In fact I am going to try it next on a chrome/silver Hurricane! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest canuck63 Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 It is an indisputed (by everyone but you I guess) fact that Alclad sold many thousands of bottles of paint that lacked a critical drying agent. So no matter how they were applied, even by someone of your elevated skill level, they would never dry. Even Alclad has acknowledged this problem. While it does not sound like that is the source of this guy's trouble, the problem is real. I've re-read my post over and over again...yet I still have to find where I did write that the fact that Alclad sold a batch of faulty bottles isn' an "indisputable fact" or an "undisputed truth",I just don't believe in "bad batches" and "faulty this or that"...full stop;I NEVER spray anything on my models before trying it on a piece of scrap plastic first,and the reason is twofold;first off I want to be 130% sure that the paint(s) I'm going to use are ok (many a bad experience with Italy's Molak paints in the 80s...great paints which called for drums of thinners to be properly thinned and to dry well) and secondly I want to make sure about the drying time before hitting the "weather the sucker" button!I don't believe in "bad batches" for it's up to the individual modeler to test the product first if he wants to "protect" the model he's worked on for many months,detailing it inside and...out ( http://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.ph...c=16335&hl= ) ! In my humble opinion,(edit by admin),assuming that the "bad batch" theory is true,they(Alclad) must have used the same carrier they use with the gloss black base,which incidentally takes ages to dry properly and which makes for a great flypaper if sprayed on strips of cardboard ...Dr.Dave has given a good answer about the highly volatile solvents used in Alclads. Always in my humble opinion faulty Alclads may have been bought by a few individuals who rightly complained about the bad stuff and who have been immediately joined on the "I've just bought faulty Alclads" bandwagon by legions of modelers who didn't know how to use the stuff;too wet a coat will take up to a few hours to dry (Alclad's dry in a few seconds and after three minutes you can start masking panel with low tack post-its or frisket) and will chip like crazy when dry,while it's absolutely impervious to handling when used properly!Alclad retired the "batches","bad" and working alike,dumped the stuff and substituted fresh bottles for the old ones!On the other hand I'm quite confident that once some of the modelers who assumedly bought a good %%% of "faulty" bottles learned how to spray the stuff,the "bad" bottles miracolously turned into "good" ones ! Cheers Manny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Matt Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Greg...give the grey microfiller/primer a go. I use it to undercoat lots of things. It really bites and helps you avoid any paint peeling off. Its generally a great undercoating material, dries very quickly and is easy to spray. I spray my metal colours at the recommended PSI on the bottle and make relatively even coats. Nothing special, no thinning, no humidity or temperature tests...mix the bottle, into the airbrush ( TR2 Iwata) and then bang on the kit... What might work easier for you is those Tamiya rattle cans of AS12 etc...I've used those on my Yak18 and was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was. I feel the cans are a much more economical way of going for large aircraft. I don't think you can fiddle with the shades and tones as much as Alclad though. Let us know how you get on. Cheers Matty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDave Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 I have only used Alclad black primer once, it was a British summer and it dried in minutes. I had the top coat on after 20 mins. Mind you the model was crap so I am not posting it here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hannover - Germany Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 Well, i used Tamiyas grey Surface primer L, then a coat of black (Acrylic), followed by a coat of Future. When this all is really dry, i start spraying Alclad. I never had problems with it. Just make shur, as it was already said, use very less pressure and go not too close with the airbrush. More thin layers are ok, not too much at one time. You can use different Alclad shades, or i have heared, that some guys use just one Alclad shade, but paint different panels in silver, black, brown, blue and so on. That way they archive different shades with one Alclad color. But i´ve not tryed that. It doesn´t matter what you spray on first, the most important thing is, to use not more that 1 bar pressure, which is about 13 psi. Don´t thin Alclad and go easy on the trigger. Then it should be no problem. Keep us posted... Oh yes, the surface should be very smooth before using Alclad, as you see EVERYTHING on it´s surface.... Cheers, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spads57 Posted May 16, 2008 Author Share Posted May 16, 2008 Thank You One and All for your advise and discussion on using Alclad II.I think I've pretty well figured out what I did wrong and will try again time permitting.I've got to say that I think Manny was correct in his observations and I in no way feel my supply of Alclad II was at fault.Oh well live and learn.I'll let you guys know how it goes on the next attempt.Thanks again. Regards, Gregory Jouette "WHO KNOW'S DIDDILY ABOUT SPAYING ALCLAD II,BUT WHO'S LEARNING" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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