johng Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 The Official Monogram Painting Guide to German Aircraft lists 5 known schemes for the Me-163: A) 74/75 segmented pattern on wings and fuselage including fin and rudder. Lower surfaces 76. 02 overall with large, soft edged patches of 83 over all the fuselage including fin and rudder. Wing upper surfaces in 81/82. C) 74/75 on wings and fuselage with 76 on lower surfaces. Mottling on the forward fuselage in 74 and 02 with soft edged ripple pattern of 74 on the 76 colored vertical tail surfaces. D) 81/82 on wings and upper fuselage with 74 and 75 sprayed in large mottles over the vertical tail surfaces and lower fuselage forward and aft of the wings. E) 81/82 on wings and fuselage with 76 colored fin, rudder and lower surfaces. 82 faintly sprayed in large soft edged patches on the fin and rudder. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 The Official Monogram Painting Guide to German Aircraft lists 5 known schemes for the Me-163: A) 74/75 segmented pattern on wings and fuselage including fin and rudder. Lower surfaces 76. B ) 02 overall with large, soft edged patches of 83 over all the fuselage including fin and rudder. Wing upper surfaces in 81/82. C) 74/75 on wings and fuselage with 76 on lower surfaces. Mottling on the forward fuselage in 74 and 02 with soft edged ripple pattern of 74 on the 76 colored vertical tail surfaces. D) 81/82 on wings and upper fuselage with 74 and 75 sprayed in large mottles over the vertical tail surfaces and lower fuselage forward and aft of the wings. E) 81/82 on wings and fuselage with 76 colored fin, rudder and lower surfaces. 82 faintly sprayed in large soft edged patches on the fin and rudder. Hope this helps. Thanks John. I'm assuming this was written back in the day before the whole 81/82/83 conundrum was properly resolved? Two of them (81 & 83?) were reversed in their designations early on, and I think it was only in the early '90s (again, ?) that this was finally cleared up. I'm sure someone else here knows a lot more about this than me. Also the Me 163B site talks about the possible existence of 71/70 over 65 schemes, though of course nothing is definitive. And I'm certainly no expert! Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Didn't know there had been a conundrum. My guide was published in 1980 and has color chips that match known color photos of actual aircraft. That color scheme from the Me 163 site doesn't seem likely. 65 had been out of official use by the time the 163 went into service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Didn't know there had been a conundrum. My guide was published in 1980 and has color chips that match known color photos of actual aircraft. That color scheme from the Me 163 site doesn't seem likely. 65 had been out of official use by the time the 163 went into service. Here's the passage from the 163 website I was thinking about: It was suggested that RLM 70/71 is not that strange a choice. RLM 74/75/76 was introduced when large parts of the fighter missions would be over the sea. The RLM 70/71 dark greens were not suited that environment, and were replaced by 74/75 greys. The Me 163's mission was point defence, and would hardly ever take them over the sea. A land camouflage was thus better suited. Another aspect is that camouflage on the ground became more important, since the Allied fighters were shooting up airfields. Lastly, the 70/71/65 colors were still used for bombers (up to the Arado 234 jet bomber), transports and even the Dornier 335. Thus it was not a matter of 'using up existing or left-over stocks', the colors were still in use in 1944. As for the 81/82/83 thing, here's what I found in an article over on Hyperscale by David E. Brown: 2) Following the 1980 publication of their landmark book "The Official Monogram Painting Guide to Luftwaffe Aircraft", the authors, Kenneth Merrick and Thomas Hitchcock, later determined that their designations for RLM colours 82 and 83 as presented in the text were in fact reversed. In their subsequent "Errata - Omission" sheet, they stated: Since publication of this book, the authors have not discovered definitive official confirmation for the true identity of the colors 81, 82 and 83 . . . the so-called late-war colors. However, the preponderance of evidence from all sources suggest that Color 81 was Brown-Violet, Color 82 was Bright Green and Color 83 was Dark Green. This does not negate the fact that there existed considerable contradiction between various aircraft painting charts regarding the true description of these three late-war colors. Now you can see why I'm confused, and don't claim to be an expert! Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Thanks for that info. I never got notice of the errata and mine is an autographed copy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Mollica Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 The instruction sheet on my Eagle Strike decal sheet suggests 81/83 over 76 for all three camouflaged aircraft. This doesn't conform with the Monogram guide either before or after the errata. Looking at the colours in my Gunze bottles, there isn't going to be a lot of definition between the two colours. I confirmed this with the 'Eagle Editions Official Luftwaffe Color Chart'. Most of the known photos of 'yellow 11' the aircraft I am depicting don't show the colour demarcation on the wings, due to the angle of the photo, lighting etc, however one on the ME163 site taken from the starboard quarter shows quite a reasonable definition on the wing leading edge. So either the colour call outs on the decal sheet are incorrect, or variations of the clours that are different to those I've described above were in use on this aircraft. I don't have the answers, just the questions. Cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Not sure if this helps at all Tony, but here's another passage from David E. Brown's article that is of some interest regarding the use of 70/71: The slow production and delivery of the Me 163B resulted in it wearing a variety of camouflage colours from the time of the first deliveries (December 1943) to the cessation of production (February 1945). It is known from the many published photos and other documentation that most of Ekdo.16's aircraft were Me 163 BVs (V: "Versuchs", or test/experimental) and many were uncamouflaged, being painted in either RLM 02, or more likely, RLM 76. Other aircraft are known to have had very dark, low contrast upper wing colours, which do not suggest the 74/75 greys, but more likely the 70/71 greens. Their fuselages are interpreted as being painted in 76 with a mottle of 75. (Emphasis mine.) The article makes no mention of 81/82/83 in the context of the 163. Well worth reading though! Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 OK, with the colour question still up in the air, I've moved on the to point of having the airframe fully assembled: The fit is not fantastic, but it's not dire either. The cockpit seems a tad wide for the fuselage, but it gets there in the end. Because of the odd shapes involved, I couldn't clamp the halves while they were bonding, so I had to hold them together manually. This caused a bit of slippage between the two halves. The white plastic card you can see growing out of the nose is a shim I put in place to help compensate for this slippage at the nose end. I've also shimmed the wing-to-fuselage joints in places. It'll still need a good dose of putty though. I've also got the main wheels done, bar some more weathering - anybody got any good ideas about how to weather tyres effectively? They've had an oil wash and a dry brush, but you can't tell in the (typically awful) photo: I return to work on the 17th, so the race is on to see if I can get it done by then! Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allok Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 ... with the colour question still up in the air... Hope you guys manage to sort this out before I start mine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 Sorry Keith, still don't know any more about the camo scheme! Better get it sorted though, as I've already got it primed and should be ready to paint after some touch-ups: There's some remedial work to do on some of the seams, and the wing-to-fuselage joints are a bit frustrating. The profile of the wing mating edges is slightly different to the profile they're supposed to mate with on the fuselage. This means that it's a perfect join along some sections, and too low (creating a step) in others. It's not even consistent across the left and right parts. I'm sorely tempted to just leave it, as it doesn't look too terrible. Perhaps a compromise is in order... I've also assembled the kit dolly: Tony Mollica kindly sent me some detailed info on the dolly, but I opted to use the kit part as-is. I'm working really hard here to avoid getting bogged down with all the 'usual stuff' on this build! Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Kev, if you want, I can send you all the color pics and profiles I have on the Komet. Send me a PM with your email address. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSP_Kevin Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 Kev, if you want, I can send you all the color pics and profiles I have on the Komet. Send me a PM with your email address. John Thanks John, PM sent! In the meantime, my inner perfectionist has been doing battle with my inner Homer over the wing roots, and has triumphed. I've just finished a copious sanding session to rehabilitate those joints, and they're looking much better now. From photos it looks like the prototype had a lap panel fairing at the wing roots anyway, so a completely invisible join wouldn't be strictly accurate. More photos soon. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allok Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Looks great Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveJ Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 You may actually have this wrapped-up before you're back to work! Nice progress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johng Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Pics have been sent. If any of them are of particular interest, let me know and I'll make a scan of higher quality and send it. The pack I just sent had to be compressed because I'm on a dialup connection and large photos take forever to send. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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